Just Flight Piper Arrow III Preview

[marsman2020 1,310]

Whatever Robert did to create the Turbo Bonanza seems to work just fine in terms of the manifold pressure and power.  The VL-3 915 mod also seems to fly close to the numbers for that version of the VL-3 with the turbocharged Rotax. 

Turboprop turbine based engine behavior is wrong (TBM950, C208, King Air), but I don't see a big problem with turbocharged piston engines at this point.

[marsman2020 1,310]

2 minutes ago, jimcarrel said:

Uh, excuse me, but aren't we pretending to be flying, seems if we can do that, we can manage to fly like there might be ice. Something strange going on here.

The only thing strange is aircraft developers trying to sell $45 aircraft that are missing things the $4/each aircraft that come with the simulator have, and glossing it over in a YouTube comment with some lame excuse.

Honestly I never even would have thought to ask the question if icing is visually represented on this aircraft.

With each new aircraft release we find out about all the new "gotchas" of the things that different developers are cutting corners on. 

[sd_flyer 6,041]

7 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

I love simple solutions.  🙂 

Three students from different flight school share impressions of their CFI:

First student: "My CFI is the best in the world! He actually showed how airplane iced up and then demonstrated  how get out of bad icing! "

Second student: "Well, mine CFI even better! He actually demonstrated a very bad landing, so I lean not do it like that" 

Both look at the third student who stays silent and ask him "What about your CFI?

Third student "My CFI doesn't do sh@t  like that  but sometimes when he goes goes around, I ask him "why" and he always replies that he saw coyote on the runway"  🙂

[Tim-HH 572]

18 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

What turbocharged (not turboprop) engine aircraft do we have in the game at the moment - The Turbo Bonanza mod obviously but apart from that does the SR22 have a turbo ?

Of the MSFS default aircraft only the two Diamonds are turbocharged. But both have an automixture system. 

[Tim-HH 572]

17 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Whatever Robert did to create the Turbo Bonanza seems to work just fine in terms of the manifold pressure and power.  The VL-3 915 mod also seems to fly close to the numbers for that version of the VL-3 with the turbocharged Rotax. 

Turboprop turbine based engine behavior is wrong (TBM950, C208, King Air), but I don't see a big problem with turbocharged piston engines at this point.

In MSFS turbocharged engines behave like normally aspirated engines when it comes to leaning. With turbocharged engines there is in theory no need to lean the engine when the airplane climbs as the density of the air that enters the combustion chamber is held constant by the turbocharger. But in MSFS you have to constantly lean the engine or the power output will drop significantly like it does with normally aspirated engines.     

[xender 459]

37 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Really nothing stop a person to plan sim flight like IRL, and fly it without actually getting into icing

True, but in real life (And also in msfs!!) sometimes you find yourself in icing conditions unexpectedly. How do you notice? Easy: You look out of the window and see ice crystals forming. Or at night you grab your flashlight from time to time and suddenly you see some ice crystals  on the windshield. That's your clue to GTFO and descend or change course etc. It has happened to me on the seminole. Ice crystals? -> Act quickly and GTFO

On the JF arrow it will be always pina colada time. An endless Hawaiian summer anytime, anywhere.

[sd_flyer 6,041]

8 minutes ago, xender said:

True, but in real life (And also in msfs!!) sometimes you find yourself in icing conditions unexpectedly. How do you notice? Easy: You look out of the window and see ice crystals forming. Or at night you grab your flashlight from time to time and suddenly you see some ice crystals  on the windshield. That's your clue to GTFO and descend or change course etc. It has happened to me on the seminole. Ice crystals? -> Act quickly and GTFO

On the JF arrow it will be always pina colada time. An endless Hawaiian summer anytime, anywhere.

Again, I'm not justifying or agree with JF's decision. I simply convey solution based on what we have been told. There are so much about flying besides icing

[xender 459]

1 minute ago, sd_flyer said:

Again, I'm not justifying or agree with JF's decision. I simply convey solution based on what we have been told. There are so much about flying besides icing

I know. I do understand and also agree with what you said.

[marsman2020 1,310]

16 minutes ago, Tim-HH said:

In MSFS turbocharged engines behave like normally aspirated engines when it comes to leaning. With turbocharged engines there is in theory no need to lean the engine when the airplane climbs as the density of the air that enters the combustion chamber is held constant by the turbocharger. But in MSFS you have to constantly lean the engine or the power output will drop significantly like it does with normally aspirated engines.     

True.  Even for naturally aspirated aircraft the mixture behavior is somewhat wonky.  I'm generally happy to hit the right point at cruise.  It's not clear to me that Asobo will ever fix this.

Someone could do their own engine model in WASM and bypass the MSFS engine modeling if they really wanted to, but I think given the amount of work required I'd expect a higher price there.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

5 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

True.  Even for naturally aspirated aircraft the mixture behavior is somewhat wonky.  I'm generally happy to hit the right point at cruise.  It's not clear to me that Asobo will ever fix this.

 

For quite a few aircraft you need to lean at 2000' the way you would normally expect IRL to set it when at more like 8000' .

[Phantoms 800]

2 hours ago, Tailwinds said:

But that's my point, with the JF PA there's no need to do any planning at all because it doesn't matter whether you fly into icing conditions or not.

I took the reply to mean that visual icing is not currently modeled, not that icing doesn't affect the plane. Maybe I'm wrong.

I do know the Mooney models icing visually, but you can ice the whole thing over and keep right on flying like nothing happened.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Phantoms

[bobcat999 8,477]

Did they change the Mooney then?  When it first came out I got badly iced in a cloud and could barely hold altitude getting into Flagstaff (about 8000 feet). I had icing effects on in the menus. I was quite shocked at the lack of performance. I will have to try it again.

As for this JF Arrow, they should have just left the icing on.  What's the point in removing it? We know it is overdone, but if Asobo fix the icing rate, it will fix it for all aircraft.

Every other aircraft I own seems to have the icing model.  It's a strange decision.

Edited March 9, 2021 by bobcat999

[bobcat999 8,477]

Above question about icing has been justified by JF Scott in the 'other' Arrow thread. 

Sounds a reasonable explanation - basically they may revisit the icing after Asobo have adjusted it. 
Asobo have recognised the icing is overdone and said they will adjust the icing at some stage in the future - they mentioned it in a twitch.

[JustFlightScott 904]

To answer the questions about the icing issue for those who are concerned about the omission of the current feature...

This was certainly not a case of 'cutting corners'. Somewhat surprised at that allegation and if you look at the myriad of other features and cool additions we've dedicated time and effort on we'd hope those who believe we've cut corners might just reconsider.  Many of those other things we could easily have ignored or chose to not tackle.  We didn't because we thought folk would enjoy seeing them in the aircraft and spending time on getting those things implemented and working nicely would be justified. 

That said where possible we'll do our best to listen to feedback and ensure we can keep as many of you as happy as we can, within limits of course.  We had already decided that we'd look at the icing issue after release and we'll be doing that and may now look to speed that up.  But to be clear the reason we decided to leave it alone for now was a. it's generally not allowed to fly your Arrow where ice conditions might exist and b. what is there at the moment in default aircraft we're not keen on at all.   So as as explained already and elsewhere we knocked the idea and feature on the head so we could go concentrate on stuff that we thought would be more important to people and believe that was the right choice.  We simply didn't believe leaving it in as it is currently was the right thing to do, it wasn't going to a good fit with what we were creating here so the decision was taken to omit it totally. Who knows where our investigation into the feature will take us we sincerely hope we'll be able to improve the feature and bring you something much improved, let's see on that front.  To confirm though, as things stand, if you head to icy areas the systems will respond and you can act accordingly it's just that there will be no visual representation for now. 

There's no definite right or wrong here as evidenced by the varying opinions on the thread but I hope that brief explanation helps and to repeat, it's really your choice if this is vital to you then opting to not buy right now probably makes sense.  Maybe take a look again when we have something in there for it?

Thanks All and just to add we really appreciate the ongoing interest shown in our Arrow and the patience whilst you all wait for your first flight, we're working tirelessly here and hope for a release very very soon! 

[tup61 1,560]

Anyone knows which previous purchase will give you a discount on this one? I bought the Arrow III/IV for Aerofly FS 2 last year (EDIT just checked my JF-account... it was 18/07/2019 already... wow, time flies...) and haven't received an e-mail about a possible discount. Is that because this new one is the III only and not the III/IV...? Or is it because only FSX/P3D purchases will give a discount? I would like to get this one but it's not THE plane I am waiting for so the full price is a bit too much for me right now. 😉

Edited March 9, 2021 by tup61