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edpatino

From Flightsim.to to SimMarket in one day...

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Posted (edited)

I don't know if I'm missing something, but this morning I downloaded for free from Flightsim.to a version of the Midway Airport (KMDW) in Chicago (very small size, around 420 KB, with default textures and objects). Honestly, the airport is very well done, and I understood it was a WIP.

This afternoon, several minutes ago, there's apparently a similar payware version (looks like it's the same) of KMDW available at SimMarket (https://secure.simmarket.com/arif-studio-chicago-midway-airport-kmdw.phtml).

Then, tried to be back at Flightsim.to, just out of curiosity, and it seems the KMDW version that was available this morning is not there anymore.

I'm not sure if this can be done, but it looks like using default MSFS textures for selling them in a product as a payware is something strange and would probably violate some legal rights.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's what I think.

Cheers, Ed

Edited by edpatino
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Cheers, Ed

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I came across this too! I was wondering the same thing!


Ron Hamilton

 

"95% is half the truth, but most of it is lies, but if you read half of what is written, you'll be okay." __ Honey Boo Boo's Mom

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7 minutes ago, edpatino said:

I'm not sure if this can be done, but it looks like using default MSFS textures for selling them in a product as a payware is something strange and would probably violate some legal rights.

Not if it's not distributing the textures, which it's unlikely that they are.  Anything build using "stock" scenery objects is effectively just going to consist of small file that references library objects and other data.  Their use by reference is no more a copyright issue than it would be if you were selling... I don't know...  instructions on how to arrange nails and timber into a house, for a program that can build and paint one automatically using just those instructions.

This is why things like this Midway scenery are so small, even though they contain a lot of objects, compared to "fully custom" airports that can be a gigabyte or more in size.


Rob Jones, Lead Developer🆆🆃Working Title Simulations
(Except where stated, all opinions are mine, not those of my employer.)

 

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There are many current things in simmarket that violates the copyright, for example 

https://secure.simmarket.com/fly-by-fleepe-ibiza-photogrammetry-map-msfs.phtml google rip off and many from the same developer.

Or these rip off from sketch up objects library https://secure.simmarket.com/mscenery-leon-msfs.phtml and many from the same developer. 

There are many of these in simmarket. What surprised me is, simmarket is a German based registered company and you know how serious copyright issues in Europe is. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Selling something that basically consists of accessing and rearranging in-game assets in a unique way is not really an issue in and of itself. Providing, of course,  they are not using those assets in a product for some other game altogether..

I suppose it is the difference between a kit or instructions to build an ultralight designed to use a particular Rotax engine versus a product that ships with an illegal copy of that proprietary Rotax product.  

The real question is - can they justify the price they want for it? 

For example something like a detailed and complex fantasy Reno style air racing circuit that took weeks of work to develop may be worth a substantial price even if it just accesses the in game assets whereas a small airfield with one building and a wind sock you can create yourself in a few minutes is probably not even worth 2 dollars.

 

Edited by Glenn Fitzpatrick

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This also isn't the first freeware to hop from flightsim.to to simmarket, although the last time around the person who did it changed their mind because of exactly the sort of thing @Steve Dra talks about in the thread:

 

6 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

There are many current things in simmarket that violates the copyright, for example 

Yeah, simmarket has been my go-to site for flight sim stuff for a long time, but they're having real issues with letting people sell garbage, rebranded content, or just plane deceptive things (like the King Air package) these days.   I've been thinking of taking my custom elsewhere because of it.

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Rob Jones, Lead Developer🆆🆃Working Title Simulations
(Except where stated, all opinions are mine, not those of my employer.)

 

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3 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

Yeah, simmarket has been my go-to site for flight sim stuff for a long time, but they're having real issues with letting people sell garbage, rebranded content

Yeah just like these now https://secure.simmarket.com/illuminators-orlando-night-light-enhanced-msfs.phtml and mannny of these lights things. Many of us know how super easy to add these lights any scenery using the scenery editor and yet some folks abusing this feature and start making money by selling packages of Christmas lights that costs 12euro per package. 

 

 


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22 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

There are many of these in simmarket. What surprised me is, simmarket is a German based registered company and you know how serious copyright issues in Europe is. 

Maybe SimMarket will say that nobody is claiming particular rights, and there's no issue until that happens...?

Cheers, Ed


Cheers, Ed

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

This also isn't the first freeware to hop from flightsim.to to simmarket, although the last time around the person who did it changed their mind because of exactly the sort of thing @Steve Dra talks about in the thread:

Well, it's freeware until the date and hour it becomes payware (and yes, Gatwick is an exception, as it's still available as freeware at Flightsim.to).

Cheers, Ed

Edited by edpatino

Cheers, Ed

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36 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

Not if it's not distributing the textures, which it's unlikely that they are.  Anything build using "stock" scenery objects is effectively just going to consist of small file that references library objects and other data

That's makes sense.

Cheers, Ed


Cheers, Ed

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, edpatino said:

Maybe SimMarket will say that nobody is claiming particular rights, and there's no issue until that happens...?

Cheers, Ed

You don't have to 'officially' claim something you have created as copyright for it to actually be copyright. The basics of intellectual property are that if you create something; it becomes your intellectual property at the point of creation. You can officially register/record things as an easy means to prove they existed at a certain point in time so if you subsequently wish to go after people who have used your stuff without permission to do so, it will be easy to prove, but that's really all registering things actually achieves. It just makes protecting things legally a bit easier to implement.

There are some things which cannot be copyrighted, for example, instructions on how to operate a machine safely cannot be copyrighted, but generally speaking, if something creative is made, it is the intellectual property of the person or organisation which made it and becomes so at the point it comes into existence.

There are some popular myths which confuse matters sometimes, for example, there is a myth that if you change something by at least thirty percent, then that is enough to make it your own creation, but in spite of a lot of people believing this, it simply is not true. This makes sense if you consider the example of perhaps taking the first 600 pages of a famous novel, and then writing a following chapter of 300 pages which differs from the original story, then claiming it is an original novel. Obviously this would not be an original work, which is why you are not likely to see a 'Harry Potter and the Magic Bucket of Steam' novel anytime soon.

Things get a bit more confusing with texture add-ons for flight sims for example. Let's say you do a repaint for a commercial add-on airliner product. If the paint kit for that model comes with a clause which says it cannot be used as a basis for a commercial product if you use it to make a repaint you want to sell, then obviously you cannot do that. But if you create a completely original image file which you have totally drawn all by yourself, and this happens to be of the correct size, shape and file format to work as a repaint file for that product if put in a suitable folder structure, then you can indeed sell this, because it is all your own work.

Where a problem with this might occur, is if you also included original product files in an installation zip file for perhaps the tires, or the engines which there was no artistic reason for changing to have the repaint work. Of course the way around this is to not include those specific files and tell people in an installation text file that they will have to add these files from one of their original paint jobs. Some companies might be more litigious about you adding files of this nature to your commercial product than others of course, since in theory at least, these would be of no use to anyone who had not bought the original product they were used in, so some companies might not make a big deal about such things being included merely for installation convenience when legitimate users already were in possession of them. This is more often than not what is going on with products which include some original files.

Technically and legally you aren't allowed to do the above unless permission has been given to do so, but how much a company might object to this if it is not costing them any loss of earnings and may in fact make their original product more popular with buyers, is up to the owner of the original stuff's intellectual property rights.

Edited by Chock
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Funnily enough, I just downloaded the same airport last night from Flightsim.to. Seems I timed it right. 😊 It will be interesting to see if he will be prepared to offer the support (and accept criticism for problems) further down the line. Everyone has a right to want to be paid for their work, but with charging a fee comes great responsibility...

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While it is annoying, there is not much that can be done, and ultimately market forces will come into play.  

The way things are going, creation of freeware for MSFS is phenomenal; someone else will be along to create another freeware Midway before long!  :biggrin:

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Chock said:

You don't have to 'officially' claim something you have created as copyright for it to actually be copyright. The basics of intellectual property are that if you create something; it becomes your intellectual property at the point of creation. You can officially register/record things as an easy means to prove they existed at a certain point in time so if you subsequently wish to go after people who have used your stuff without permission to do so, it will be easy to prove, but that's really all registering things actually achieves. It just makes protecting things legally a bit easier to implement.

I think the reference is mainly to the use of sketch up models and google images in commercial scenery, according to this post:

1 hour ago, omarsmak30 said:

There are many current things in simmarket that violates the copyright, for example 

https://secure.simmarket.com/fly-by-fleepe-ibiza-photogrammetry-map-msfs.phtml google rip off and many from the same developer.

Or these rip off from sketch up objects library https://secure.simmarket.com/mscenery-leon-msfs.phtml and many from the same developer. 

There are many of these in simmarket. What surprised me is, simmarket is a German based registered company and you know how serious copyright issues in Europe is. 

Cheers, Ed

Edited by edpatino

Cheers, Ed

MSFS Steam - Win10 Home x64 // Rig: Corsair Graphite 760T Full Tower - ASUS MBoard Maximus XII Hero Z490 - CPU Intel i9-10900K - 64GB RAM - MSI RTX2080 Super 8GB - [1xNVMe M.2 1TB + 1xNVMe M.2 2TB (Samsung)] + [1xSSD 1TB + 1xSSD 2TB (Crucial)] + [1xSSD 1TB (Samsung)] + 1 HDD Seagate 2TB + 1 HDD Seagate External 4TB - Monitor LG 29UC97C UWHD Curved - PSU Corsair RM1000x - VR Oculus Rift // MSFS Steam & P3Dv4.5hf3 - Win 10 Home x64 - Gaming Laptop CUK ASUS Strix - CPU Intel i7-8750H - 32GB RAM - RTX2070 8GB - SSD 2TB + HDD 2TB // Thrustmaster FCS & MS XBOX Controllers

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