I hate Non Jeppesen Approach plates.

[Manny 1,293]

Enjoyed the reading TXHills. 🙂

[TXHills 17]

Manny -

Glad you enjoyed my 2-cents worth on this.  Hopefully the link worked so you could get the approach plate.  Jeppesen also stepped up to the plate (yes, pun intended) and published the Belgrade Serbia LYBT Lctr Rwy30R approach that was in the story on Col. Albright's web site - another fun approach (and, another link I hope works).  A very talented fellow. "Professor Al" (I call him that because, well, he really is a Professor) AKA ColAl and I enjoy the challenge of hand-flying all sorts of different approaches - teardrop procedure approaches are one of my favorites.  Al wrote a lua script that calculates various parameters used when flying (rate of descent, top of descent distance, etc.) among which includes a calculation for flying a teardrop procedure - gives you the bank angle required to get the 'perfect; teardrop.  If you are interested you can get the script from the Avsim library - flightparamcalculator.zip

Most of the parameters use the math but there are a couple that use a rule of thumb.  You can find some information on our Academy website on Rules of Thumb - and some other stuff if you are interested, just click on the Academy link in my signature.  Feel free to share / distribute / use the info as you like

for yourself and anyone interested.

[Manny 1,293]

55 minutes ago, TXHills said:

Manny -

 

Most of the parameters use the math but there are a couple that use a rule of thumb.  You can find some information on our Academy website on Rules of Thumb - and some other stuff if you are interested, just click on the Academy link in my signature.  Feel free to share / distribute / use the info as you like

 

for yourself and anyone interested.

Will check it out. Thanks

BTW.. was the "Rules of Thumb" supposed to be a hyper link? If it was, its not working.

I think I have an idea of what that could be, When I was doing my IFR training, I was recommended this book

Instrument pilot flight training manual by Ralph A Butcher  (Author)

Its the best instruction manual for an IFR student. Almost all IFR books help you pass the IFR exam but very few books actually teach you how to fly an IFR like an IFR instructor would teach you. It would also give you plenty of thumb rules. Give you tricks/Thumb rules etc. e.g. if your runway is 18 the reciprocal runway is add 2 the first digit 1+2= 3 and deduct 2 from the second digit 8-2 = 6. so its 36.  if the runway is 34, the reciprocal runway is deduct 2 from the first digit  = 1 and add 2 to the second digit = 6 so its 16. 

 

I would recommend this book any new IFR students

Edited January 19, 2021 by Manny

[Andreas Stangenes 1,628]

On 1/14/2021 at 8:36 PM, Manny said:

Especially EU and Asian approach plates are so confusing. It looks like they have no standard

I am looking for the ILS frequency, IMO the most important item that should be on Top like in Jeppesen plates.  and I can't find it. I have to search for it all over the place.. It should be right on top.

https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2019-12-05-AIRAC/graphics/100905.pdf

So where on that plate does the ils frequency actually show? I've been searching and cant find it 😄

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

here is that PNG bush pilot guy having a mini rant about non-Jefferson apps ...

 

 

[Manny 1,293]

33 minutes ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

So where on that plate does the ils frequency actually show? I've been searching and cant find it 😄

They have the ATIS freq and other  comm freq on the strip. But the primary frequency of Primary approach ILS 23 is not on the strip. That is ridiculous. 

If I am a single Pilot on an IFR and I am thrown about in the gust in IMC and I  am given an approach to a runway that was changed 5min earlier than what I was anticipating, I am in high overworked situation and have my hands full, I can ask the approach for the weather at the airport I am intending to land, they would give it to me without a thought. But if I have to ask for the ILS frequency, they are going to make me give them a call after I land.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Manny

[Andreas Stangenes 1,628]

@Manny I didn't find it amusing at your cost though. I genuinly looked for 10 minutes without seeing the frequency. Thanks for pointing it out 🙂 

[Manny 1,293]

2 minutes ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

@Manny I didn't find it amusing at your cost though. I genuinly looked for 10 minutes without seeing the frequency. Thanks for pointing it out 🙂 

Sorry. the Internet. I saw that smile and thought you were being sarcastic. 🙂 

[TXHills 17]

17 hours ago, Manny said:

BTW.. was the "Rules of Thumb" supposed to be a hyper link? If it was, its not working

Sorry about that - not sure what happened so try this one:  Rules of Thumb

If that does not work you might be able to get to the document through the Supplemental Reading link - first document, top of the list.  You'll see your reciprocal runway/ heading rule of thumb on the last page (I added that for the simple reason that I had some space left on the last page 🙂 !).  And, I agree, Ralph Butcher's book is a solid, no-nonsense guide to what you should really know. 

Fingers crossed that these links worked.  Hope the Jepp chart links worked also.

Dan

[Manny 1,293]

3 hours ago, TXHills said:

Sorry about that - not sure what happened so try this one:  Rules of Thumb

If that does not work you might be able to get to the document through the Supplemental Reading link - first document, top of the list.  You'll see your reciprocal runway/ heading rule of thumb on the last page (I added that for the simple reason that I had some space left on the last page 🙂 !).  And, I agree, Ralph Butcher's book is a solid, no-nonsense guide to what you should really know. 

Fingers crossed that these links worked.  Hope the Jepp chart links worked also.

Dan

Yup. It works. Thank you.

I am pleasantly surprised you know about Ralph Butcher. Very few people know him for his amazing work on IFR and IFR instruction. When I don't fly IFR for more than two weeks, My instructor makes me fly his pattern. The rectangle pattern with standard rate 360 turns  wile descending 1000 feel below and then climbing 1000 feet above (left and right turns) and coming to the starting point to see how bad or goo my knowledge  has atrophied since the last time we flew. So before I go fly with him, I do that pattern a couple of times on the sim and I fly perfect with him. Ha Ha. 

Dan,

Do you have anything on entering holding patterns? the different types of ATC instructions to get to a holding pattern e.g not necessarily at a VOR,  rather 10 miles DME from a VOR and thumb rules  for entering that? That used to be the hardest part for me. I wish MSFS ATC gives us holding pattern instructions randomly. Tsk Tsk. 

I can't access that Jeppesen chart to that Serbia airport. But I found the non Jeppesen version on Dauntless DB I subscribe to. Crazy approach The guys did a good job drawing it on his napkin.

BEOGRAD/ Batajnica L RWY 30R

Edited January 20, 2021 by Manny

[TXHills 17]

31 minutes ago, Manny said:

Do you have anything on entering holding patterns? the different types of ATC instructions to get to a holding pattern e.g not necessarily at a VOR,  rather 10 miles DME from a VOR and thumb rules  for entering that? That used to be the hardest part for me. I wish MSFS ATC gives us holding pattern instructions randomly. Tsk Tsk

See if this gives you what you are looking for - Holding Patters.  If the link does not work it is a few jumps down in the list in the Supplemental Reading section.  I believe the part that will be of interest starts on page 8 - Establishing an Unpublished Hold.  I use the "wind arrow" technique.  Also covers the usual stuff about recommended entry, etc. which still apply - although following the lead of some comments from a couple of 'double I's' I have heard I do tend to bend the 'recommended' entry rules a bit if I can do a teardrop entry vs. a parallel entry.  Of course, all the time keeping in mind the FAA "GOTCHA" regulation on careless or reckless (just because you're paranoid does not mean they are not still really out to get you!).

See if this link works for you for the Serbia chart - LYBT-LctrRwy30R

Dan

[Manny 1,293]

8 minutes ago, TXHills said:

See if this gives you what you are looking for - Holding Patters.  If the link does not work it is a few 

.....

See if this link works for you for the Serbia chart - LYBT-LctrRwy30R

Dan

Thank you for that Holding Pattern instruction. that link works fine. You an IFR instructor Dan? if so you must be good at it. 🙂

and see the Serbian Jeppesen chart, .its less complicated than the non Jeppesen version I posted. 🙂

Edited January 20, 2021 by Manny

[sd_flyer 6,040]

The funny thing about holding patterns while everyone learn about different type of entries, they are recommended not required . Also there is new famous Navy entry LOL

 

 

[TXHills 17]

Manny:

Glad you found the holding pattern info useful (and that I finally figured out how to post links that work 😬 ).  Not an instructor (yet) but once all this COVID stuff is over with I'll get myself down to the testing center and get my GI-A and GI-I.  My third career, I guess (but not really - doing it for my own interest).  Strictly a sim flier these days, along with (unofficially) helping some folks get through their written and orals.  Help yourself to anything you see on the web site and as I said before you can feel free to pass the info along to anyone that might be interested.

Dan

[TXHills 17]

2 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

The funny thing about holding patterns while everyone learn about different type of entries, they are recommended not required . Also there is new famous Navy entry LOL

At the risk of revealing my 'somewhat advanced age' - reminds me of the time I was going into Washington National and Tower said to hold at the Masonic Temple - I asked "some specific direction and leg length?" and he replied "just keep it in sight and try not to run into anything".  Simpler times, those were.  And, no comment regarding the potential contrail graffiti the 'Navy Hold Entry' would leave 👹 ... and intended, I might guess.

Edited January 20, 2021 by TXHills