• X-Plane userbase is actually growing since the release of MSFS (about 10%) (https://steamcharts.com/cmp/1250410,269950#6m)
• MSFS needs 3rd party more than X-Plane (airports, aircraft)
• X-Plane engages with community just fine (dev blog, direct email contact possible, bug report form, future feature voting page)
• Additional major cashflow from mobile app/professional use funds development

Again your arguments "against" X-Plane are easily dismissed, MSFS has declined in userbase steadily and is now (according to Steam data) not even 3x the X-Plane usage.

That is still great, but with the studio personel behind it numbering about 10x as many devs and the majority of its users being casual gamers that will move to the next game soon ...I think that MSFS is less likely to be developed further in the future than X-Plane.

Cheers, Jan

6 minutes ago, Janov said:

• MSFS (...) is now (according to Steam data) not even 3x the X-Plane usage.

Have you ever heard of Game Pass? The vast majority of MSFS users *have not* even purchased the sim (I did, but via the MS Store, so I am not part of these statistics).

MSFS has a potential target of over 20 million users who are entitled to getting the sim at no additional cost. That is compared to  2k daily Steam XP11 users (plus the others that purchased via the LR store).

Please stick to flight model comparison, because in terms of weather, graphics, terrain and user base XP11 is far, far behind.

 

24 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

MSFS has a potential target of over 20 million users who are entitled to getting the sim at no additional cost.

Just because somebody could use a product does not make them a "target user" for that product. I also have Steam, Origin and EpicGames, does that make me a "target user" for all the games they have on their platforms for free? 😂

There are thousands of games out there that I could play for free, but won´t.

And then there are thousands of games out there that I wouldn´t play, even if paid to do it (MSFS being one of them 😉)

... well, ok, everyone has a price. Make me an offer I can´t refuse!

Edited February 11, 20215 yr by Janov

27 minutes ago, Janov said:

 

Just because somebody could use a product does not make them a "target user" for that product. I also have Steam, Origin and EpicGames, does that make me a "target user" for all the games they have on their platforms for free? 😂

There are thousands of games out there that I could play for free, but won´t.

And then there are thousands of games out there that I wouldn´t play, even if paid to do it (MSFS being one of them 😉)

... well, ok, everyone has a price. Make me an offer I can´t refuse!

We are not talking about F2Play games here, but rather games that are included with a subscription. Also, keep in mind that MSFS is an AAA title and, being a Game Pass subscriber myself, I am very much interested in trying those titles to justify my monthly expense.

In other words: the game world is changing dramatically not only with the likes of Game Pass, but also GeforceNow, XCloud, etc. MSFS is part of that change, whereas XP11 is not.

Not even 24 hours has passed, and around the table we go again.  Laminar must be doing something very right to stir up these MSFS vs X-Plane topics!  Just be careful, @Janov  don’t say anything that’ll offend anyone. 

Edited February 11, 20215 yr by GoranM

Until we really see what Laminar has in store for X-Plane 12 it is all just guessing, anyway. We know what was "hinted at" - but will they deliver? Expectations are running very high and I don´t think they will (can) surpass those expectations.

They will not leapfrog MSFS in visuals, and they can´t leapfrog MSFS in the other areas because they are already ahead in those 😉.

In both camps we have users that put their hopes on future improvements, and all too often we hear "yeah, sure it´s *** right now, but just wait until..."

3 hours ago, Janov said:

 

Just because somebody could use a product does not make them a "target user" for that product. I also have Steam, Origin and EpicGames, does that make me a "target user" for all the games they have on their platforms for free? 😂

There are thousands of games out there that I could play for free, but won´t.

And then there are thousands of games out there that I wouldn´t play, even if paid to do it (MSFS being one of them 😉)

... well, ok, everyone has a price. Make me an offer I can´t refuse!

Xplane is all I have on my computer. Dont do anything ellse. Over it all.

7 hours ago, GCBraun said:

Please stick to flight model comparison, because in terms of weather, graphics, terrain and user base XP11 is far, far behind.

Well, in terms of graphics, terrain and user base, even Google Earth is far above XP. Although, like MFS, it remains far behind in terms of flight model...

Actually, because there is OrbX and orthos I can live with the existing terrain by sticking to the areas I've got covered by them. I can even do without volumetric clouds. Given a choice I would like improved lighting, reflections and shadows over all else which ought to bring the sim to life.
 

Oh and free monthly AiRAC data would be nice to save on the Navigraph subscription. (Although even though I subscribe I have no real understanding of why I do?😂)

Edited February 11, 20215 yr by jarmstro

6 hours ago, Janov said:

Expectations are running very high and I don´t think they will (can) surpass those expectations.

Expectations could not be running any lower. It took over 4 long years for Vulkan port - that's all it is a port - and what has changed?  lower fps (Nvidia users) and new bugs. Smoother in exterior fly by mode but stuttery when changing views in cockpit. This is not being negative this is the facts.  Of course I hope XP12 is freaking Amazing and everything is fixed and looks better, but that's a long shot.

Yeah, I guess you are right.

Edited February 11, 20215 yr by Janov

11 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Expectations could not be running any lower. It took over 4 long years for Vulkan port - that's all it is a port - and what has changed?  lower fps (Nvidia users) and new bugs. Smoother in exterior fly by mode but stuttery when changing views in cockpit. This is not being negative this is the facts.  Of course I hope XP12 is freaking Amazing and everything is fixed and looks better, but that's a long shot.

How come I have no fps loss on :

AMD FX 4300 

12GB DDR3

RX 550 2GB 

 Ofc not saying I can run it max out , but for me it's quite decent until I get a better rig. I have almost no stutters under Vulkan. Though I can't max out the objects due to a very low old system but it does work fine for me depending on the area , usually with Tall buildings it runs bad for me.

There was an issue once that every time I exited XP and restarted it my fps was being cut into half , sent the bug report twice and then Ben responded saying it's a plugin which is the cause , found the culprit , it was Livetraffic.  

Even now there is an issue again , where after using any sim like recent game pass MFS / AC / DR , XP runs like word not allowed , this I haven't yet filed as a bug ,but eventually I will.

I suggest first starting XP without any plugins , using default aircraft and scenery , just to check what / who might be the culprit , at times its PEBAC .

Also delete the shadercache and the .prf file and let it recreate it. 

Hope it helps.

 

26 minutes ago, Greazer said:

lower fps (Nvidia users)

To be fair I got an extra 6fps with Vulkan. And less stutters. As a result I was able to turn on shadows which was nice. But the shadows turned out to be not nice at all.😂

Give me: incredible true 3d clouds and atmosphere and dynamic lighting effects with amazing HDR!, Snow and precipitation effects/buildup on the ground, 120+ FPS (as Vulkan should run!) with optimized occlusion culling!, ray traced cockpits and environments with ambient lighting and DLSS, first person mode, proper weather engine and wind effects on flight model, no more sudden cloud redraws!, proper ground handling and trucks and jetways (long overdue, should not need a plugin anymore!), Details at ground level using procedural methods: procedural grass/dirt/rocks based on ground texture, procedural animals and wildlife, procedural waves that look real and appear depending on wind strength and direction, procedural and dynamic wind affected trees that sway in the wind, procedural rodents and birds etc, procedural ground textures that looks like Ortho, all new and reworked and excellent ATC that just 'works'!, all new and reworked multiplayer with shared cockpits.

6 minutes ago, Greazer said:

procedural animals and wildlife

Animals AND wildlife? A tall order to be sure.