8 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

You can use ubuntu 20 , it will install it along side windows so no hassle with partition creation etc.. there are quite a few decent distros. I have been using Ubuntu , for browsing / watching movies etc.. its great , for gaming not much 

But if you are going to install on a separate drive then select that drive as a bootloader in Ubuntu or whichever distro during  installation

Thanks but I want one that is good for gaming? The one that is blisteringly fast for XP compared to Windows as eulogised by mSparks?

4 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

Server market but not PC market, because its good for techy people not the average Joe,

Server/SaaS is linux's biggest market for sure, but I'm talking specifically consumer computers that run and sell software.

What generally causes confusion, is unlike windows devices, virtually no Linux distributions use the Penguin logo, they use the logo of the company making the distribution.

Google, Apple, Samsung, LG, Sony, Huawei - smartphones, TVs, set top boxes, games consoles (xbox being the sole exception)

Are all custom Linux spins, in 2021 there are only two operating systems, Linux (or some variant from its past), or Windows.

Windows CE and Windows phone are basically completely dead. Windows desktop is on its last legs.

"Average Joe" doesn't know this or care, has literally no idea what is on their device, they just open up the in operating system store, enter their CC details, and install their favourite software, with non of the headaches (or piracy) that burden windows.

27 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Which free version would you recommend I install for a novice user as a replacement for Windows? Click, auto Install and go a necessity.

If you want to see what linux looks like on the desktop, I'd say use

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/creating-and-using-a-live-installation-image/

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f33/install-guide/install/Preparing_for_Installation/#sect-preparing-boot-media

To make a bootable USB, boot from that, you dont even have to install it, just start the machine with usb set to bootable and it in the USB slot (but for something like xplane you'll need it installed)

11 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

Ubuntu

I generally wouldn't recommend Ubuntu, its popular because it has a lot spent on advertising, not because its the best/most stable/most tested distribution.

There is a lot of choice, its really a personal choice on which best meets your needs. My general recommendations are Fedora for really new hardware (because that is where all the latest and coolest features go) or one of the Redhat equivalent distributions if its slightly older hardware and you just want an absolutely bullet proof system that never crashes (CentOS streams or Oracle Linux for example)

1 minute ago, jarmstro said:

Thanks but I want one that is good for gaming? The one that is blisteringly fast for XP compared to Windows as eulogised by mSparks?

Well , you can go with a lighter desktop environment distro like Lubuntu.  There are a few other light desktop environment based distros.  Manjaro was supposed to be very good for gaming but I haven't tried it. I am ok with Ubuntu.

Ubuntu should be fine for XP , but you will need to install OpenAl that is the sound library.

I have stopped using XP in Linux , can't waste my time getting the AMD GPU drivers to ever work properly in it so it's all on windows. 

 

Disregard 

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by HumptyDumpty

16 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

AMD GPU drivers

thats the other consideration.

If you are AMD gpu, dont even try if you need graphics support, there is only pain down that road. AMD dont even test their windows drivers that well (leave all their testing to the game studios), their linux drivers are an underfunded community affair, and graphics drivers are the hardest of all computing problems to solve.

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by mSparks

21 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Server/SaaS is linux's biggest market for sure, but I'm talking specifically consumer computers that run and sell software.

What generally causes confusion, is unlike windows devices, virtually no Linux distributions use the Penguin logo, they use the logo of the company making the distribution.

Google, Apple, Samsung, LG, Sony, Huawei - smartphones, TVs, set top boxes, games consoles (xbox being the sole exception)

Are all custom Linux spins, in 2021 there are only two operating systems, Linux (or some variant from its past), or Windows.

Windows CE and Windows phone are basically completely dead. Windows desktop is on its last legs.

"Average Joe" doesn't know this or care, has literally no idea what is on their device, they just open up the in operating system store, enter their CC details, and install their favourite software, with non of the headaches (or piracy) that burden windows.

If you want to see what linux looks like on the desktop, I'd say use

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/creating-and-using-a-live-installation-image/

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f33/install-guide/install/Preparing_for_Installation/#sect-preparing-boot-media

To make a bootable USB, boot from that, you dont even have to install it, just start the machine with usb set to bootable and it in the USB slot (but for something like xplane you'll need it installed)

I generally wouldn't recommend Ubuntu, its popular because it has a lot spent on advertising, not because its the best/most stable/most tested distribution.

There is a lot of choice, its really a personal choice on which best meets your needs. My general recommendations are Fedora for really new hardware (because that is where all the latest and coolest features go) or one of the Redhat equivalent distributions if its slightly older hardware and you just want an absolutely bullet proof system that never crashes (CentOS streams or Oracle Linux for example)

OK I'll give it a go at the weekend when I have time.  I'm plumping for Redhat. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Can't do it now because something rather exiting is about to happen!😀

11 hours ago, Janov said:

Linux is the same, it excells in certain regimes, but lacks severly in others.

In which?

 

 

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Which free version would you recommend I install for a novice user as a replacement for Windows? Click, auto Install and go a necessity.

Ubuntu is the most mainstream release and therefore the best documented.

 

1 hour ago, HumptyDumpty said:

I have been using Ubuntu , for browsing / watching movies etc.. its great , for gaming not much

Funky, I do all my gaming on Linux. WINE even makes titles work that Windows 10 plain old refuses to because of age.

The no-go list is relatively short and more rooted in titles using outlandish Windows dependencies that nobody bothered to recreate in WINE yet (e.g. FS9/FSX and its awful UI rendering library).

 

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

Thanks but I want one that is good for gaming? The one that is blisteringly fast for XP compared to Windows as eulogised by mSparks?

All are good for gaming because on all, you will have to install Steam (with Proton) or WINE.

 

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

If you want to see what linux looks like on the desktop, I'd say use

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/creating-and-using-a-live-installation-image/

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f33/install-guide/install/Preparing_for_Installation/#sect-preparing-boot-media

To make a bootable USB, boot from that, you dont even have to install it, just start the machine with usb set to bootable and it in the USB slot (but for something like xplane you'll need it installed)

I generally wouldn't recommend Ubuntu, its popular because it has a lot spent on advertising, not because its the best/most stable/most tested distribution.

There is a lot of choice, its really a personal choice on which best meets your needs. My general recommendations are Fedora for really new hardware (because that is where all the latest and coolest features go) or one of the Redhat equivalent distributions if its slightly older hardware and you just want an absolutely bullet proof system that never crashes (CentOS streams or Oracle Linux for example)

Come on Mark, a beginner distro requires adequate public documentation and Fedora's is limited to the bare minimum. It's Ubuntu or nothing.

 

1 hour ago, HumptyDumpty said:

I have stopped using XP in Linux , can't waste my time getting the AMD GPU drivers to ever work properly in it so it's all on windows.

Mesa and done. Enough for a vanilla XP experience in OpenGL and Vulkan.

 

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

If you are AMD gpu, dont even try if you need graphics support, there is only pain down that road. AMD dont even test their windows drivers that well (leave all their testing to the game studios), their linux drivers are an underfunded community affair, and graphics drivers are the hardest of all computing problems to solve.

The pain only stings when using X-Plane with add-ons in Vulkan mode, but at least there is an OpenGL driver as a fallback which is much better than Windows'.

5 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

In which?

 

 

Ubuntu is the most mainstream release and therefore the best documented.

 

Funky, I do all my gaming on Linux. WINE even makes titles work that Windows 10 plain old refuses to because of age.

The no-go list is relatively short and more rooted in titles using outlandish Windows dependencies that nobody bothered to recreate in WINE yet (e.g. FS9/FSX and its awful UI rendering library).

 

All are good for gaming because on all, you will have to install Steam (with Proton) or WINE.

 

Come on Mark, a beginner distro requires adequate public documentation and Fedora's is limited to the bare minimum. It's Ubuntu or nothing.

 

Mesa and done. Enough for a vanilla XP experience in OpenGL and Vulkan.

 

The pain only stings when using X-Plane with add-ons in Vulkan mode, but at least there is an OpenGL driver as a fallback which is much better than Windows'.

Well that whole spiel has completely put me off. No wonder most people use Windows or Apple.

Just now, Bjoern said:

In which?

 

 

Ubuntu is the most mainstream release and therefore the best documented.

 

Funky, I do all my gaming on Linux. WINE even makes titles work that Windows 10 plain old refuses to because of age.

The no-go list is relatively short and more rooted in titles using outlandish Windows dependencies that nobody bothered to recreate in WINE yet (e.g. FS9/FSX and its awful UI rendering library).

 

All are good for gaming because on all, you will have to install Steam (with Proton) or WINE.

 

Come on Mark, a beginner distro requires adequate public documentation and Fedora's is limited to the bare minimum. It's Ubuntu or nothing.

 

Mesa and done. Enough for a vanilla XP experience in OpenGL and Vulkan.

 

The pain only stings when using X-Plane with add-ons in Vulkan mode, but at least there is an OpenGL driver as a fallback which is much better than Windows'.

It depends which games , DR runs in Linux but I do not use it , XP also but I do not use it, ATS also but I do not use it ,  also have DCS / il2 hence I do not want to keep rebooting and the AMD drivers argghhhh .

Arma won't run on Proton so I have to stick with windows,   AC won't run too.  

The day these start running natively I would switch in a blink.  Not interested in using WINE / Proton , I have done all that years ago. 

 thread has gone from X-plane to OS's .

Yes I was using XP under Linux with Mesa but came Vulkan it had problems and I did not look back to installing the AMD GPU pro drivers. As said do not intend to waste time on it , at least for now.

 

14 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

Fedora's is limited to the bare minimum.

Thing is, there is not much to document. its all user friendly gui's for the software, all the hardware except gpu drivers just works, and the nvidia installer is very well documented and rock solid, even builds its .ko on its own now.

In fact, Ubuntu is probably worse for GPU drivers, because they have all that PPA or whatever nonsense dont they?.

fedora is

telinit 3

./NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-460.39.run

reboot.

which is about as hard as it gets.

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by mSparks

4 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Well that whole spiel has completely put me off. No wonder most people use Windows or Apple.

you want a bite of linux just get Ubuntu for now and try it out. 

Or if you want to go hardcore then Arch Linux. 

13 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

In which?

The paramount ones: Usability and compatibility.

Just read your and mSparks posts. I am really considering myself tech-savy but I have not the slightest cue offensive initials not allowed you guys are even talking about.

I have the impression that Linux is for die-hard geeks that don´t get out a lot and most of the things I would like to run on my computer will likely not run.

It may be the computer nerds wet dream, but remember that computers and other smart devices really arrived in the mainstream only after the "human interface" problem got solved for the general populace.

If I consider installing Linux I will immediately turn away in disgust as soon as I find out that I have to decide on a certain "distribution" which may or may not have certain advantages or disadvantages. Ok Windows10, here I come 🙄

20 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

you want a bite of linux just get Ubuntu for now and try it out. 

Or if you want to go hardcore then Arch Linux. 

Ok I may give it a go at the weekend. 
 

EDIT: So once you have installed it do you have to reinstall XP to the Linux drive or can you just run it from the existing installation?

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by jarmstro

20 minutes ago, Janov said:

I have the impression that Linux is for die-hard geeks that don´t get out a lot and most of the things I would like to run on my computer will likely not run.

Perhaps a screenshot of my desktop would help

(3 monitors and the PSVR headset)

Do you think there is enough to keep me busy there? (hehe)

 

 

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by mSparks

6 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Do you think there is enough to keep me busy there? (hehe)

Maybe you, but not me 🙂