Aircraft flight Aerodynamics

[tweekz 2,165]

24 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

and as some have said, even in light wind, no turbulence, and with wing tanks balanced etc. occasionally I have found the aircraft in an ever increasing bank after just looking at a chart for 20 seconds.

That is actually realistic. It's the p-factor effect and more pronounced the larger the angle of attack / thrust. But it also occurs in cruise flight. Those 20 secs you mention seem pretty realstic to notice the effect.

Edited January 25, 2021 by tweekz

[rob0203 686]

2 hours ago, Nyxx said:

If your using key board then, thats just terrable and am sure its really bad. You could buy a second hand joystick....anything and make it an axis for rudders. Anything cheap will do, anything is better than key board.

I have no idea why you cannot keep you aircraft center lined M20 etc. IMO its two things or one or the other. A) your not smooth on controling your rudders. B) You need to set up your rudders better to suit your needs.

Here are by Rudder setting, they might help. If your still all over the place keep adding curve to dull down your over correctness. Small smooth movments are key. I have never worn shoes or anything with my rudders just socks. You "feel" a lot more.

Unlike when controlling a real aircraft you can "feel"

Thanks will give your settings a try later! It is not my rudder control input , if I move just a tiny bit teh airplane already responses too much.

Edited January 25, 2021 by rob0203

[KenG 492]

1 hour ago, tweekz said:

That is actually realistic. It's the p-factor effect and more pronounced the larger the angle of attack / thrust. But it also occurs in cruise flight. Those 20 secs you mention seem pretty realstic to notice the effect.

That would be torque effect because as you level off in cruise P-factor diminishes. 

P-factor is caused by the disymatary of thrust across the prop disc caused by the difference in the AoA between the left and right halves of the propeller. Thus in a climb when the relative wind enters below the spinner P-factor is at its greatest while at cruise when the relative wind enters directly into the spinner (or nearly so) P-factor diminishes.

Torque effect is caused by the motion of the propeller acting through the center of gravity. As power is increased the nose tends to yaw left (in clockwise spinning propellers.)

During training in the King Air I demonstrate both concepts in flight with a properly trimmed airplane in straight and level flight. With my feet on the floor, In the first case I add power and the nose yaws left, that is torque effect. I retrim the airplane and keep the power the same and raise the nose to about 15 degrees nose up. Again the nose yaws left, this is P-factor. Since I am doing this in a twin there is almost no spiraling slipstream. 

For guys who have flown jets their entire career this is an eye opener. (Military types who started in the T-37 and never flew a prop their entire lives until the King Air.)

I have not seen a vector in the MSFS Aerodynamics video coming off the propeller to the left, so at this point, I assume that any left turning tendencies in the sim are faked (or computed using simple constants) and not computed using the modern aerodynamics. This seems supported by the SDK that does not show any of the aerodynamics associated with the propeller. However, we will have to see what is released with the next aerodynamic updates and hopefully, an updated SDK to support the models, since they advertise moving from the current 640 vectors to over 1,000.

[Nyxx 6,993]

52 minutes ago, rob0203 said:

Thanks will give your settings a try later! It is not my rudder control input , if I move just a tiny bit teh airplane already responses too much.

If my setting dont work, increase sensitivity to -50 on BOTH - & +. Take it upto 80 if needs be. 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

5 hours ago, Nyxx said:

No idea, but the M20 taxis takeoff roll is great and also land, taxi etc. No probelms at all. Nothing. Nore with any other aircraft.

Well the YMF-5 has issues - it is all over the shop ...

but I just see that as a challenge to work at 😄

For me a wobbly takeoff and somewhat bouncy landing at St Bart's is an achievement and I intend to keep practicing till I get it right.

 

 

[Bobsk8 12,575]

20 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Well the YMF-5 has issues - it is all over the shop ...

but I just see that as a challenge to work at 😄

For me a wobbly takeoff and somewhat bouncy landing at St Bart's is an achievement and I intend to keep practicing till I get it right.

 

 

Tail draggers in general are usually a challenge for most pilots. Took me months to reliably land the A2A Texan in P3D especially in a crosswind , and I have no problems in real life landing Cessnas and Pipers. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Bobsk8

[Nyxx 6,993]

 

56 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Well the YMF-5 has issues - it is all over the shop ...

but I just see that as a challenge to work at 😄

For me a wobbly takeoff and somewhat bouncy landing at St Bart's is an achievement and I intend to keep practicing till I get it right.

 

36 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Tail draggers in general are usually a challenge for most pilots. Took me months to reliably land the A2A Texan in P3D especially in a crosswind , and I have no problems in real life landing Cessnas and Pipers. 

Bob a perfect sum up.

[marsman2020 1,310]

14 hours ago, rob0203 said:

I will come back when they fix it for now the planes are hard to even keep on the ground while taxiing. Even when I changed the sensitivity of my rudder pedals.

Is there any chance you mapped your pedals to the 'rudder' mappings instead of the 'rudder axis' mappings by mistake?  If you do this it goes from 0 rudder to full rudder instantly at a certain deflection of your physical controller.

[EvidencePlz 276]

3 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Well the YMF-5 has issues - it is all over the shop ...

but I just see that as a challenge to work at 

That was a beautiful take off. Nice to see you didn't get bent out of shape  and cry a river like most reviewers, and instead took it as a challenge and did a great job 😄

Edited January 25, 2021 by EvidencePlz

[JimBrown 596]

10 hours ago, honanhal said:

Maybe it's an issue of needing to change my setup in some way, but I have to agree with Rob here. This is one of my (relatively few) frustrations with MSFS. I don't have rudder pedals, which makes using rudder and/or ground steering a real exercise in frustration. Super twitchy using the keyboard to steer and it is genuinely hard for me to keep some aircraft (especially the CJ4) on the taxiway sometimes! I would give anything for an autorudder like in FSX/P3D where I could use my joystick to steer on the ground.

James

I believe this is what you are looking for...

...jim

[honanhal 1,420]

11 hours ago, JimBrown said:

I believe this is what you are looking for...

I believe you're right! Thanks! I'll give it a try, anyway.

James

[JimBrown 596]

Should have mentioned that that setting also takes care of taxi steering. I only have an old CH Yoke and can steer while taxiing using the aileron axis of the yoke. Not exactly real world, but gets the job done.

...jim

 

[Bosco19 198]

Kind sad that we have to resort to "auto" settings to make things workable.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

2 hours ago, Bosco19 said:

Kind sad that we have to resort to "auto" settings to make things workable.

Bit like a modern Boeing or Airbus really 😄