737 MAX still not fixed: insider report

[Chock 17,769]

Just now, KenG said:

Give it 5 years and the traveling public will forget. 

AF 296 crash at Habsheim was poor planning for an airshow routine, poor piloting decisions and a bit of showboating which went wrong, not a fault with the aeroplane.

[CYXR 257]

3 minutes ago, KenG said:

Give it 5 years and the traveling public will forget. 

 

 

The public; perhaps. But 737 MAX crews, airlines execs. and civil attorneys tend to remember these things.

[W2DR 1,860]

9 minutes ago, n4gix said:

I wonder if the old advice about "not buying a car built on a Friday" applies as well to new aircraft? 

Or on a Monday. Unfortunately it's never been ascertained which day is worse. On Friday everyone is rushing to get things done and leave for the weekend and on Monday they're all trying to recover from doing whatever it was that made them rush on Friday.

[scott967 62]

3 hours ago, W2DR said:

Another Model T factoid. In the U.S. the Model T was available in a variety of colors, but NOT black, during it's first five and last two years of production. But, from 1914 through 1925 it was available only in black. The reason? Black paint dried faster that the other colors and, hence, allowed for faster production.

Interesting paper on the Model T Ford Club of America site:paint

that suggests otherwise.

 

scott s.

.

 

[W2DR 1,860]

I must have missed something.

From the referenced article..."Most Model Ts were black. Not all, just most. The early 1909 models were red and gray, but in the middle of 1909 this gave way to a dark green. During December 1910 and January, 1911, the dark green in turn was changed to a dark, almost black, midnight blue. Finally, in late 1914 to early 1915 the blues were replaced with just plain black on the open cars. From this point until the introduction of the “Improved Models” which appeared in August 1925, black was the standard color. Roughly 11,500,000 cars were produced during this time period and even after the introduction of the Improved Models, many of whose bodies were painted in green and maroon, a substantial portion of the cars, and even whole cars, continued to be painted black."

Doesn't that say that everything between 1914 and 1925 was painted black? Or, am I just confused (again)?

 

 

[goates 576]

3 hours ago, CapnOz said:

The truth here is simple- Boeng needs to scrap the " max" brand, redesign the entire plane properly and call it something new- why not start a new generation of products like a B828 or something like that,

They even had a golden opportunity to get a jumpstart on doing this by buying the Bombardier C Series, rather than attacking it. The proposed larger version would have competed directly with the 737 and A320. Instead, Airbus now has it and could make use of it to replace their A320 series. Probably would have also led Canada to buying a bunch of Super Hornets too.

[CYXR 257]

16 minutes ago, goates said:

They even had a golden opportunity to get a jumpstart on doing this by buying the Bombardier C Series, rather than attacking it. The proposed larger version would have competed directly with the 737 and A320. Instead, Airbus now has it and could make use of it to replace their A320 series. Probably would have also led Canada to buying a bunch of Super Hornets too.

Boeing was confident that it would never get off the ground but the US government sure was worried about it and imposed  a 292% tarif on the C Series. It was later lifted and last year; Airbus inaugurated its A220 final assembly line in Mobile, Alabama. Go figure... We were proud of Bombardier of course, but considering the  sequence of events during the past 12 months, it probably was our great luck that Airbus came into the equation when it did.    

Edited January 26, 2021 by CYXR

[goates 576]

24 minutes ago, CYXR said:

Boeing was confident that it would never get off the ground but the US government sure was worried about it and imposed  a 292% tarif on the C Series. It was later lifted and last year; Airbus inaugurated its A220 final assembly line in Mobile, Alabama. Go figure... We were proud of Bombardier of course, but considering the  sequence of events during the past 12 months, it probably was our great luck that Airbus came into the equation when it did.    

The plane was already in service and was living up to its promises, and even exceeding them. It was when a US airline chose it over the 737 that Boeing deliberately petitioned for the tariff, though not to the extreme level the government applied. If they weren't worried about it, I doubt they would have even bothered, and the government wouldn't have done anything on its own.

[NZ255 309]

6 hours ago, W2DR said:

Another Model T factoid

A factoid is a false fact 🙂

[CapnOz 110]

4 hours ago, KenG said:

Give it 5 years and the traveling public will forget. 

 

 

Unless it contines to happen....

[Garys 209]

Complete BS. Now the Apu is at fault.as well.  Give me a break. What I find most amusing about all this is that during the recirtification process, professional pilots, engineers and officials flew countless hours on the aircraft. Once it was given the go ahead to fly and handed back to the airlines and before the first passengers even had the opputunity to take flight, once again the airlines own pilots and engineers were on board doing training and test flights. Those professionals in aviation wouldnt be so keen to resume their roles on the max if it was as bad as some of these folk make it out to be and its quite apparent that they dont have any real knowledge about the modifcations that have been made to the aircraft . Speaking from the outside in and making those claims is nothing but fear mongering.

Social media is the new age curse and I really do find it amusing  that despite the hundreds of thousasands of flight hours and passengers flown on the max worldwide before these 2 accidents occured, the most outspoken about never flying on one again wouldnt be able to tell you the difference betweeen a 747 and bell 206 without doing a google search and its thanks in part to articles like that one.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Garys

[Chock 17,769]

1 hour ago, Garys said:

professionals in aviation wouldnt be so keen to resume their roles on the max if it was as bad as some of these folk make it out to be and its quite apparent that they dont have any real knowledge about the modifcations that have been made to the aircraft . Speaking from the outside in and making those claims is nothing but fear mongering.

Whilst I agree with you that sometimes in this day and age a bit of 'trial by social media' going on; we only have to look at what all those Q-Anon idiots believe, and what serious incidents that can lead to to know that's true. However, that's not the case here; the reporting of problems with the MAX which echo in social media are as a result of the very damning report from a US Congressional investigating committee. The report is not merely critical, it is absolutely scathing on the entire certification and construction process for the 737 MAX. Read it and you will see that it highlights a slew of disturbing problems at not just Boeing, but also the FAA, including a good deal of covering things up and glossing over problems.

At nearly 250 pages long it might take you a while longer to read that report than it will to read this one the OP linked to, but it will lead you to suspect that the reason professionals in aviation are so keen to resume their roles, is because they've quite possibly been lied to about it being sorted, or at the very least been exposed to some very economical truths. We know Boeing and the FAA have done this before, the Congressional Report highlights this and further states that its a cultural problem which needs to be addressed, i.e. it has not yet been addressed.

Meanwhile the fact remains that an airframe design which is half a century old has modern engines with a very different thrust line bolted to it and some software to stop that going awry, and you don't have to be Kelly Johnson to know that's not a great idea.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Chock

[CYXR 257]

1 hour ago, Garys said:

Complete BS.

The deaths of 346 passengers and crew members and the grieving of their loved ones are not BS. 

 If you had a case for the ungrounding of the 737-MAX, you wouln`t need to insult their memory and hurt their loved ones more than they already have been.  All those who have doubts about the  FAA`s ungrounding of the 737-MAX are having them  because the FAA didn`t implement an independent joint authorities technical review process. The data used to justify the ungrounding of the 737-MAX was never made public. The same just trust us and take our word for it approach that ended the lives and dreams of all these victims and their loved ones is being tried again. Secrecy; not the transparency that Boeing promised; is what is speaking for itself today. 

``FlyersRights.org has filed a motion for Summary Judgment in its Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) case against the FAA. (Flyers Rights Education Fund v. FAA, (D.D.C. CV-19-3749 (CKK)). It seeks disclosure of FAA documents pertaining to the proposed ungrounding of the 737 MAX, so independent experts and the public can review the basis on which the FAA intends to unground the plane.`` This motion is supported by the following people: ``Michael Neely (20 years with Boeing as a system engineer and project engineer), Javier de Luis PhD (30 years of experience as an aeronautical engineer and manager, MIT lecturer), Richard Spinks (38 years of experience in process safety, automation engineering), Dennis Coughlin (31 years of experience as an avionics technician and instructor), Ajit Agtey (40 years of experience as an airline and military pilot, and former Chief Test Pilot of the Indian Air Force), Daniel Gellert (50 years as a commercial airline pilot, Boeing test pilot, and FAA official), Geoffrey Barrance (30 years experience as an avionics, air frame and safety engineer), Gregory Travis (over 30 years experience as a computer software scientist/executive, private pilot), Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger (37 years experience as an airline and military pilot, 10 years as an aviation safety consultant and author, celebrated for successful landing of a disabled airliner in the Hudson River), Michael Goldfarb (over 30 years experience as aviation safety consultant and former FAA aviation safety policy official), and Sara Nelson, president of the largest flight attendant union Association of Flight Attendants AFA.``

source: 
https://flyersrights.org/737-max/flyersrights-org-and-aviation-experts-ask-federal-court-to-break-faa-and-boeings-secrecy-pact-and-release-737-max-documents/

Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger is full of BS? I don`t think so.  

[Garys 209]

28 minutes ago, CYXR said:

The deaths of 346 passengers and crew members and the grieving of their loved ones are not BS. 

Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger is full of BS? I don`t think so.  

 

Please stay on point. The article headline is about the max still not fixed dated jan 20,2021.  Is there still systemic problems within Boeing - Absolutely, but do you know anything about the recertification or how many man hours it takes to bring each Max back into service including the modifications? Do you know how many parts are commonly shared between the max and NG?  

Edited January 26, 2021 by Garys

[Garys 209]

1 hour ago, Chock said:

but it will lead you to suspect that the reason professionals in aviation are so keen to resume their roles, is because they've quite possibly been lied to about it being sorted, or at the very least been exposed to some very economical truths. 

The aircraft taking flight today is not the same as the one that was grounded 2 years ago. So many changes were made within the systems and not just on a software level. The highest levels of management in all forms of aviation were involved in bringing this aircraft back online. It wasnt just a here's a firware update. goodluck ! 

The congress report is very well known,  I'm not buring my head in the sand over what happened, however I'm commenting solely on this article, its contents and where the max is today knowing full well how the modifications and redundancy will effect the flight characterists of the aircraft here on out.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Garys