FSX-MS Future of FSX

[Nurmblitz 59]

P3D seems to be also very expensive way to go as there is no discounts when upgrading between different versions. Also few addons fight to follow the pace and in some cases charge for the next version. Also when we speak about addons, some of them will never fly in P3D. How long shall the P3D5 live on? Is the 6 already around the corner? 

[FederFlyer 26]

Interesting comment by @jabloomf1230.  Someone who does not know me, nor most of the sim users, has explained our motivations to us.  Now I know who to consult before I make decisions.

I've been a technology buff since 1980.  I just retired from a global technology company after more than two decades of association with bleeding edge development.  I've been a simmer for years, using FS9, FSX, X-Plane, and MSFS.  Look up pville211 in the forums and the download areas of various sites.  Among the available files will be a comprehensive manual on FSX XML programming, including the most comprehensive Shift-Z information that is available.  I created the most complex airports in RealFlight.   I took a hiatus because of work and am now FederFlyer because a couple of sites do not allow re-using old user names.

I was not looking for a reason to do anything else, nor justify using any other sim; I was all-in on MSFS.  I bought a better PC to enable MSFS capabilities.  I found MSFS to be an incredible design effort.  Stunning.

But software engineering clearly is a lesser investment.  Simply put, MSFS is bloated, very slow to load, the architecture is messy and the architecture varies between different versions.  It relies on a chain of user, internet connectivity, servers, and game services to function.  Any of those elements fail and everything fails, which seems to be a regular situation.  The most egregious issue is the weekly (or so) update that breaks things.  The allegation that they don't do proper testing before pushing updates would explain this.  If so, then it violates a core software development tenet that you don't use your paying customers as beta testers.  The most common fix is to uninstall all your addons, do the update, then re-install your addons.  Would any FSX user find that to be an acceptable approach?  And even when the forums are on fire with complaints and many users submit trouble tickets, the response from Asobo is silence.

So, I want to have the most advanced consumer sim.  I invested a couple of thousand dollars for hardware upgrades, bought the premium MSFS version, and bought a variety of payware aircraft.  Then I spent a couple of months cussing at my PC.  Many people are having a flawless experience with MSFS.  I am one of the many people who have not.  With great reluctance, I returned to FSX because I want my sim experience to be enjoyable.

I posted the MSFS info so that other users are armed with knowledge to help them decide if they want the great MSFS visual experience, albeit with trade-offs, or if they should stay with FSX until MSFS matures.  That was my motivation.

 

[blueshark747 1,843]

Look let me tell you why you should no longer favor nor possess any interests for FSX, because I somehow know what's best for you even though I don't know you.

Look you're either broke or you have old outdated slow hardware....your desires for FSX are simply denial.

You make excuses to play a sim from 2006 because you envy others who are now only interested in the new shiny product.

There is no way any sane simmer could possibly enjoy anything else other than what's new and shiny.

The human brain just doesn't work that way...the new shiny product hits the shelves and all your attention and enjoyment comes from just that.

No other way around it...

One would need two separate brains to enjoy both and old and new sims alongside each other.

I speak for all simmers because, well I know what's best for everyone!

My specific personal tastes are standard among all simmers through out the entire hobby!🤣

Don't believe me...well just look at the market statistics. You see that 2006 product on the pie charts and graphs?

Its all dried up now...hue hue hue it can no longer hang with products not even half its lifespan.

How pathetic!😂

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by blueshark747

[Luke 782]

On 3/22/2021 at 7:10 AM, FederFlyer said:

I've been a technology buff since 1980.  I just retired from a global technology company after more than two decades of association with bleeding edge development.  .. Look up pville211 in the forums and the download areas of various sites.  Among the available files will be a comprehensive manual on FSX XML programming, including the most comprehensive Shift-Z information that is available.

What might be helpful is to describe how much code you've written in your career, what languages, and the size of the development teams you have been part of, in determining the context of your comments.

On 3/22/2021 at 7:10 AM, FederFlyer said:

But software engineering clearly is a lesser investment.  Simply put, MSFS is bloated, very slow to load, the architecture is messy and the architecture varies between different versions.  It relies on a chain of user, internet connectivity, servers, and game services to function.  Any of those elements fail and everything fails, which seems to be a regular situation.

It's ironic that you talk about being bloated and slow to load - people were saying the same things about FSX! Many people had to buy DVD-ROM drives since it didn't come on CD, and barely ran on a 3Ghz Pentium with (at the time) a whopping 1GB of RAM. It wasn't until the Core 2 at the end of 2006 when it started to approach playable at any setting, and I'd argue that it wasn't until Sandy Bridge came out (a half decade later!) that you could really crank it up.

But time heals all scars to one's heart... 😄

And honestly, it's 2021. If you do not have ubiquitous network connectivity to pretty much everywhere in your residence, the problem is not with the software but with you. Anyone in a First World nation that doesn't live out in the middle of a rural area should be able to get multi-megabit broadband (and with StarLink I think even that will no longer be a limiting factor) and I have Internet outages about as often as power outages. They are sufficiently rare to be noticeable.

I don't doubt that the game might have been a little rushed, but the reality is that you can spend a half decade polishing things or you can get it out in front of users and accelerate that by an order of magnitude. There is no substitute for getting your product in the hands of customers and partners and letting them kick the tires and grow it. It's not much different than buying a car the same year as a significant redesign - you're going to get teething problems except it's in the hardware, so no free updates possible.

On 3/22/2021 at 7:10 AM, FederFlyer said:

If so, then it violates a core software development tenet that you don't use your paying customers as beta testers.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? 😄

Cheers

Edited March 23, 2021 by Luke

[FederFlyer 26]

I'm not going to reduce this discussion to resume comparisons, marketing philosophy or chest thumping.  That adds no value, dilutes the intended message and presumes that my opinion, or your opinion, determines each user's purchasing decisions.  My posts were factual statements, not opinionated guidance.

Here's the bottom line:  Before I spent money on MSFS, it would have been helpful to know the things I mentioned in my previous posts.  I might still have bought it, or maybe not.  But it would have been a more informed decision.

 

[rcbarend 37]

On 3/22/2021 at 8:01 PM, blueshark747 said:

Look let me tell you why you should no longer favor nor possess any interests for FSX, because I somehow know what's best for you even though I don't know you.

..........

There is no way any sane simmer could possibly enjoy anything else other than what's new and shiny.

........

I speak for all simmers because, well I know what's best for everyone!

My specific personal tastes are standard among all simmers through out the entire hobby!🤣

Don't believe me...well just look at the market statistics. You see that 2006 product on the pie charts and graphs?

........

How pathetic!😂

 

 

 

Are you the same user 'blueshark747' who replied in this thread less then a month ago:

Some quotes from that post:

""

Enjoyment doesn't have an expiration date and none of these sims replace each other. They are all different sims imo.

I currently enjoy FSX alongside MSFS both in VR. I feel they are two different sims with two totally different moods,feelings and visuals. FSX has a ton of more freedom and possibility than MSFS currently.

FSX still has my favorite fixed wing and rotary aircraft, still runs much more solid in VR than MSFS for now.

I still prefer FSX handling and aerodynamics feel over MSFS( "but.. but Blueshark MSFS has more modern actual real scientific modeled wind,aerodynamics,physics systems blah blah") yes we know none of this means the aircraft are actually fun to fly though.

In which in my case they simply do not. I'm not a fan of the twitchy bouncy nose trim and several other issues with the vanilla heavy tubeliners in MSFS.

So for now FSX is still my go to for serious long haul flights and rotary fun.

""

Maybe I can't read English anymore (sorry, I'm Dutch), but I'm curious to know what has obviously changed your opinion.
You gave, and I agree, enough arguments why MSFS in its current state, is NOT a replacement of FSX; depending what one's interrest in flightsimming is.

And I don't understand why you think you can speak on behalf of "all simmers" ....
Certainly not for me, 

As a freeware designer who made/published 100+ addons for FSX, and as a user of MSFS too, I won't even start to give many more examples of simming enjoyment possible in FSX, and not (YET) in MSFS.

As to your reference to "Market Statistics":
Which "Market Statistics" ???
- Sales figures ??
- Hours spent in flightsimming ??
- Hours spent in writing comments in various flightsim forums ??
- Etc .....

Please explain .....
Those are very different statistics ; some of which are completely unknown,
If only because many active flightsimmers are not active on flightsim forums, 

Regards, 

Rob

 

 

 

[blueshark747 1,843]

4 minutes ago, rcbarend said:

Are you the same user 'blueshark747' who replied in this thread less then a month ago:

Some quotes from that post:

""

Enjoyment doesn't have an expiration date and none of these sims replace each other. They are all different sims imo.

I currently enjoy FSX alongside MSFS both in VR. I feel they are two different sims with two totally different moods,feelings and visuals. FSX has a ton of more freedom and possibility than MSFS currently.

FSX still has my favorite fixed wing and rotary aircraft, still runs much more solid in VR than MSFS for now.

I still prefer FSX handling and aerodynamics feel over MSFS( "but.. but Blueshark MSFS has more modern actual real scientific modeled wind,aerodynamics,physics systems blah blah") yes we know none of this means the aircraft are actually fun to fly though.

In which in my case they simply do not. I'm not a fan of the twitchy bouncy nose trim and several other issues with the vanilla heavy tubeliners in MSFS.

So for now FSX is still my go to for serious long haul flights and rotary fun.

""

Maybe I can't read English anymore (sorry, I'm Dutch), but I'm curious to know what has obviously changed your opinion.
You gave, and I agree, enough arguments why MSFS in its current state, is NOT a replacement of FSX; depending what one's interrest in flightsimming is.

And I don't understand why you think you can speak on behalf of "all simmers" ....
Certainly not for me, 

As a freeware designer who made/published 100+ addons for FSX, and as a user of MSFS too, I won't even start to give many more examples of simming enjoyment possible in FSX, and not (YET) in MSFS.

As to your reference to "Market Statistics":
Which "Market Statistics" ???
- Sales figures ??
- Hours spent in flightsimming ??
- Hours spent in writing comments in various flightsim forums ??
- Etc .....

Please explain .....
Those are very different statistics ; some of which are completely unknown,
If only because many active flightsimmers are not active on flightsim forums, 

Regards, 

Rob

 

 

 

🤣

I was mocking another user on the previous page, but yea sounds pretty bad right?🍻

 

[Mithras 87]

For you: FSX 2020 all the way.

Not for me though, I have so much invested in building my twin cockpit set-up with thousands of pounds of hardware and software and TIME and ENERGY.  I couldn't stomach going through all those years of work again to get the improved eye-candy. So its FSX for me. But with A2A, Milviz, Active Sky and Orbx, I'm a very happy guy! 

I know my weather engine is fantastic. I know with Milviz and A2A my aerodynamics are spot on. I know that my Orbx scenery is accurately placed and fits the region perfectly. My cockpit build replicates every switch and lever in the plane ... I'm in heaven and my rig is stable as hell. The last CTD was back in ... 2019, I think. Each to their own!

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Mithras

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

On 3/24/2021 at 7:30 PM, blueshark747 said:

🤣

I was mocking another user on the previous page, but yea sounds pretty bad right?🍻

 

You mocking was obviously quite ineffective.

[blueshark747 1,843]

6 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

You mocking was obviously quite ineffective.

As well as your ability to read sticky rules🙃

Here I'll help you out.

Have a nice day bud!😉

 

[blueshark747 1,843]

On 3/21/2021 at 9:36 PM, jabloomf1230 said:

The only reasons for sticking with FSX are that your hardware really can't run anything else and you can't afford replacing all your add-ons, both of which of course, are excellent reasons. 

Posts like that of @FederFlyer also showed up when people were looking for a rationale to not switch to either X-Plane or Prepar3D. The "new" flightsim just had all kinds of "issues". But you know what's interesting? Despite all these "issues" with XP and P3d (and now MSFS), people switched from FSX. Every online poll shows MSFS dominating the flightsim market with XP and P3d splitting up what's left. FSX has but a tiny sliver of the market and that's reflected in how many add-ons target FSX. 

MSFS has a way to go but if one can afford the cost of upgrading, there's really no point in staying with FSX. And saying that study level airliners don't exist in MSFS is not a reason to stick to FSX, because they exist in P3d, which is    at least 5 major revisions beyond FSX and to a lesser extent, XP11.

 

That sticky was made particularly for posts like this...😏

[charliearon 3,024]

If the pissing contest does not stop......then the future of this topic is in doubt! 

[David Vega 348]

Years ago I asked Tom Allensworth to announce that avsim would, from now on, show each user's age in all avsim forums postings.  This was for a April fools day.  Of course, he turned me down, though I'm sure he had a laugh.  When I read some of these threads, I can't help but to think that it would be cool to have a way to filter away immature adolescence (redundant?). 

I'm convinced there's no way to help some avsim users realize these forums should be for exchange of ideas, helping others, and general collaboration, not to say that my right leg is longer than yours, etc.  Each forum has a theme, which hopefully folks can tell by reading its title.  This one is for people that enjoy using FSX and want to get the best out of it.  Not everybody has to be using the same simulator.  Simulators are not religions... the FSX users don't need to be converted to other simulators.  If you enjoy FSX or even collaborate or help FSX users, then this is the forum for you.  If you like to complain about people that are not using your preferred simulator, I suggest using the general forum.  Perhaps I can convince the avsim board to create a rant/complaint forum or even an teen forum.  🙂 

[blueshark747 1,843]

59 minutes ago, SAX702 said:

Years ago I asked Tom Allensworth to announce that avsim would, from now on, show each user's age in all avsim forums postings.  This was for a April fools day.  Of course, he turned me down, though I'm sure he had a laugh.  When I read some of these threads, I can't help but to think that it would be cool to have a way to filter away immature adolescence (redundant?). 

I'm convinced there's no way to help some avsim users realize these forums should be for exchange of ideas, helping others, and general collaboration, not to say that my right leg is longer than yours, etc.  Each forum has a theme, which hopefully folks can tell by reading its title.  This one is for people that enjoy using FSX and want to get the best out of it.  Not everybody has to be using the same simulator.  Simulators are not religions... the FSX users don't need to be converted to other simulators.  If you enjoy FSX or even collaborate or help FSX users, then this is the forum for you.  If you like to complain about people that are not using your preferred simulator, I suggest using the general forum.  Perhaps I can convince the avsim board to create a rant/complaint forum or even an teen forum.  🙂 

Its almost as if some folks just can't resist the urge to come in here and down others for enjoying a sim that they feel should be shelved and forgotten forever.

I surely don't have the energy to go visit the MS Flight or FS 2004 section to arrogantly poke and prod at users who still enjoy them.

I'm actually quite happy to see all the older sim's forums still being pretty active.🍻

Edited March 27, 2021 by blueshark747

[charliearon 3,024]

It is stated in a pinned topic that there is to be NO comparing FSX to other Sims here in the FSX/FSX-SE forum, or any of the dedicated Sim forums.  If a "casual mention" of another Sim is made....we may let it pass.  If someone is preaching it like a religion, then please Report such posts and they will be dealt with.