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PMDG 777-200ER Released

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I can entirely understand why this is frustrating to anyone who thought the liveries were part of the 777 or that they would be freely provided. This is a very awkward situation and I didn't get it myself at first.

The sentiment right now however appears to be that buying one product entitles you to obtain part of another product which you don't own and haven't payed for and that, in this case, isn't even released yet, because part of the unreleased product slipped through by mistake. This isn't even making any sense.

The reality is that there is one person who's pumping out liveries day and night to an extent never seen before so that a new product in development can work the way it's supposed to, amounting to who knows how many work hours. Now the request demand is that this will be made available for free to anyone who doesn't even own the product and if not, it's unreasonable and a rip-off and people are claiming part of what they paid for has been taken away while said part hasn't even been released, strictly speaking.

Not a rant, just wondering.

 

 

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1 hour ago, threegreen said:

I can entirely understand why this is frustrating to anyone who thought the liveries were part of the 777 or that they would be freely provided. This is a very awkward situation and I didn't get it myself at first.

The sentiment right now however appears to be that buying one product entitles you to obtain part of another product which you don't own and haven't payed for and that, in this case, isn't even released yet, because part of the unreleased product slipped through by mistake. This isn't even making any sense.

The reality is that there is one person who's pumping out liveries day and night to an extent never seen before so that a new product in development can work the way it's supposed to, amounting to who knows how many work hours. Now the request demand is that this will be made available for free to anyone who doesn't even own the product and if not, it's unreasonable and a rip-off and people are claiming part of what they paid for has been taken away while said part hasn't even been released, strictly speaking.

Not a rant, just wondering.

 

 

I need to counter this argument. NO WHERE did it state those liveries were for GFO. We were however told there was FREE repaints available in the ops center. These were not marked in the ops center as having to do with GFO.

PMDG made the mistake here by releasing them to everyone who purchased the -200ER. That is their mistake not ours. So for about a week these were free. Now they are part of another project? Seems shady, disingenuous, and just an awful business practice. 

How anyone can justify this is beyond me. We paid for a product and then they took it away claiming it was for another product. I can't think of any of type of business where a mistake like this would favor the company. It should not.

Honestly, I am wondering if something like the BBB should look into this. Nothing was labeled as only for GFO. We were promised free liveries. And suddenly a week later those 'free' liveries aren't really free at all.

That's all I'll say on this topic. The fact that so many people are defending this behavior, explains a lot about how our hobby/community got to where it is today. 

Transparency. Honesty. These are things we should be expecting from our beloved FS developers. 

 

-Tony@PVD

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Tony Moore

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4 hours ago, B777ER said:

PMDG is full on Captain Sim pricing mode. First after 8 years they still screw up the 777 release with terrible FBW logic and no VC upgrade. A VC upgrade they say is coming later this year. Almost bet that they will wrap it around some v2 moniker and charge for it. 

Now they de-list  almost all their liveries and state you can only have them with GFO which nobody knows what that will cost or if it is a one time or subscription based pricing model. They of course locked the thread on the topic at their forum because even they know it's bad but don't care. They will just tamp down any dissent they can control.

PMDG is trying to make up for any MSFS revenue lost on the backs of us P3D users. I say I'm done with them. The FSL Airbus is a way better sim than that NGXu anyways.

They did not promised a new cockpit on this early update. When released and, if charged, you can complain as you are doing now (and you will have my bless:)). But right now that is just your assumption.
The FBW is new so it is quite normal that might need some tweeks here and there.
GFO is a new product. If it is by subscrition or not we don't know yet, again. But it is normal that will have a cost when released and by the end is always up to you if you buy it or not.
Regarding the liveries I really don't get all this anger. We have the same number of operators without all the different regs numbers, more or less like other products in the market (Fslabs, AS, CS, QW). I have not seen any anouncement about entire fleets BA, ANA, UA, AA, etc. been included in the T7 package. And by what I have read here PMDG can't do a mistake like they did here with the GFO's liveries.
And at the end you don't have any problem because the fslabs airbus is better than the 737 which has nothing to do with our beloved T7 and this topic.
BTW, you have a beautiful dog, Eric.

Cheers

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Pedro Trindade

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30 minutes ago, breakinghbts said:

The fact that so many people are defending this behavior, explains a lot about how our hobby/community got to where it is today. 

Transparency. Honesty. These are things we should be expecting from our beloved FS developers. 

Amen.

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15 minutes ago, breakinghbts said:

How anyone can justify this is beyond me. We paid for a product and then they took it away claiming it was for another product. I can't think of any of type of business where a mistake like this would favor the company. It should not.

Look, you might not believe me since you don't seem to believe the developer either and that's fine, I'm not taking any offense in that. But as a beta tester I can tell you that the liveries are part of GFO, that's not a lie. We use them every day. When you paid for the 777 you paid for the liveries that are available to you as part of the product, which are still available, as did I. The GFO liveries are not part of that product, even if they were accidentally made available on release. They didn't take anything away from you that you paid for and repeating that claim won't make it true.

I get the frustration and I think this all could've been handled differently. It's not surprising there are reactions like in this thread. But neither fact nor logic support the argument that the GFO liveries should not be GFO, that the customer's product was stolen or why any developer would want to cause this intentionally, as flat as that may sound.

 

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Posted (edited)

It's not like RSR cares anyways about what anyone here says. He will post some slight alluding to this thread I'm sure that people are dismayed and then spend a whole paragraph defending their action followed by an ending of telling everyone to go hug someone. Smh.

Edited by B777ER
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Eric 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, B777ER said:

It's not like RSR cares anyways about what anyone here says. He will post some slight alluding to this thread I'm sure that people are dismayed and then spend a whole paragraph defending their action followed by an ending of telling everyone to go hug someone. Smh.

:laugh:


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39 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Look, you might not believe me since you don't seem to believe the developer either and that's fine, I'm not taking any offense in that. But as a beta tester I can tell you that the liveries are part of GFO, that's not a lie. We use them every day. When you paid for the 777 you paid for the liveries that are available to you as part of the product, which are still available, as did I. The GFO liveries are not part of that product, even if they were accidentally made available on release. They didn't take anything away from you that you paid for and repeating that claim won't make it true.

I get the frustration and I think this all could've been handled differently. It's not surprising there are reactions like in this thread. But neither fact nor logic support the argument that the GFO liveries should not be GFO, that the customer's product was stolen or why any developer would want to cause this intentionally, as flat as that may sound.

 

Thanks for the insight into what actually happened. I can understand the fact that the liveries were made available accidentally. I just feel there could've been some kind of official explanation from PMDG as to what actually happened instead of just making most of the liveries GFO only without so much as quick heads up in the forum. Maybe they thought no one would notice? 

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James Gill

 

 

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It's interesting how people need to find constant excuses and defend a product/brand even when the developer makes constant mistakes and releases broken products.
And this notion that "FBW is new" when PMDG released the 777 in 2013 and had in beta team qualified pilots for at least 8 years to release such a buggy software in 2021.
 
I see this "I was in beta team" and wonder how they didn't see all these problems (bugs) during testing and keep on defending and being upset with the customer dissatisfaction or they keep on defending the developer.
 
If I were a beta guy qualified in the airplane and them not to listen to my inputs I would leave right away, under no circumstances go on the web and constantly argue how good it is and find all the excuses possible and play that I don't understand what is going on.
 
What a shame.
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Br,

Vlad Tepes

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11 hours ago, james42 said:

Thanks for the insight into what actually happened. I can understand the fact that the liveries were made available accidentally. I just feel there could've been some kind of official explanation from PMDG as to what actually happened instead of just making most of the liveries GFO only without so much as quick heads up in the forum. Maybe they thought no one would notice? 

I agree, I suggested a heads up and explanation because it's an awkward situation.


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10 hours ago, killthespam said:
It's interesting how people need to find constant excuses and defend a product/brand even when the developer makes constant mistakes and releases broken products.
And this notion that "FBW is new" when PMDG released the 777 in 2013 and had in beta team qualified pilots for at least 8 years to release such a buggy software in 2021.
 
I see this "I was in beta team" and wonder how they didn't see all these problems (bugs) during testing and keep on defending and being upset with the customer dissatisfaction or they keep on defending the developer.
 
If I were a beta guy qualified in the airplane and them not to listen to my inputs I would leave right away, under no circumstances go on the web and constantly argue how good it is and find all the excuses possible and play that I don't understand what is going on.
 
What a shame.

I am reading conflicting reviews about the 777.

Are you a rated 777 pilot?

I have read on Facebook pages from rated 777 pilots that the pmdg 777 simulated very close to reality.

The aircraft that real pilots are complaining about is the qw 787.

cheers

mike

 

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12 hours ago, killthespam said:
It's interesting how people need to find constant excuses and defend a product/brand even when the developer makes constant mistakes and releases broken products.
And this notion that "FBW is new" when PMDG released the 777 in 2013 and had in beta team qualified pilots for at least 8 years to release such a buggy software in 2021.
 
I see this "I was in beta team" and wonder how they didn't see all these problems (bugs) during testing and keep on defending and being upset with the customer dissatisfaction or they keep on defending the developer.
 
If I were a beta guy qualified in the airplane and them not to listen to my inputs I would leave right away, under no circumstances go on the web and constantly argue how good it is and find all the excuses possible and play that I don't understand what is going on.
 
What a shame.

The only reason why I chimed into this discussion and said I was a beta tester (GFO only btw) was because I thought it would help to provide insight into what happened with the liveries and what this means for people who have purchased the 777 expansion since there was a lot of confusion.

Everything I've said is factual just to explain without any intention of taking sides or defending any party. Yet it's continously met with the same old repetitive stuff about excuses, who's defending who and what, taking sides and apparently playing like I don't understand what's going on. This GFO topic is just stuck at the moment so I'm out until there's more to discuss.

Edited by threegreen
Clarified the topic I'm referring to.

Prepar3D v5 | PMDG 737NGXu/777 | FSLabs A320/A321 | www.united-virtual.com | www.deltava.org | ASUS Maximus XI Code Z390 | i9 9900K 5 GHz | Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB DDR4 3600 MHz | GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB GDDR6X MSI Suprim X | Windows 10 Pro 64 bit | Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB | Samsung 43'' 4K curved TV | HP Reverb G2 VR HMD | Agronn 737 Captain's Yoke | VKB Gladiator NXT Stick | FSC 737 Throttle Quadrant | Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals

 

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38 minutes ago, mikeymike said:

I am reading conflicting reviews about the 777.

Are you a rated 777 pilot?

I have read on Facebook pages from rated 777 pilots that the pmdg 777 simulated very close to reality.

The aircraft that real pilots are complaining about is the qw 787.

cheers

mike

 

Yes Mike, I was, and fly something else today.

I would qualify FSLABS FBW as close as possible to reality.

I agree that are conflicting reviews, but unfortunately, it is not "very close to reality", or quite ready for "study material", yes there is potential for that, but now there are too many issues to be listed here and quite unproductive to do that.

 

The bottom line here is that they finally acknowledge that they have some problems and there is a reason why they are working on fixing what they can. Not because is so very close to reality.

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Br,

Vlad Tepes

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33 minutes ago, killthespam said:

I agree that are conflicting reviews, but unfortunately, it is not "very close to reality", or quite ready for "study material", yes there is potential for that, but now there are too many issues to be listed here and quite unproductive to do that.

Can you give a few examples though? As someone who doesn't have a clue about how a 777 flies it would be interesting to hear about it from someone in the know. 


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1 hour ago, F737NG said:

As I said on the QW787 thread, I appreciated pilot Jon's view on technical matters since it helps us non-pros/aviation fans to better understand what happens on the other side of the locked cockpit door.

As well as being a keen simmer myself I enjoy answering questions from fellow simmers as they’re often probing and it often makes you think about and explore topics you might not otherwise ,and so I increase my own knowledge at the same time. Often there are questions about the little nuances of an aircraft which would otherwise go unnoticed in day to day operations.

And as I’ve said before, it’s give and take here.I’m not really familiar with the complex settings in the sims or what file goes where or hardware  , despite doing this since the Commodore 64 days, so I may well have questions of my own For those of you who know about this side of the hobby.

Its only right therefore that I should try and answer questions on the side of things I do know about, real world ops.

Ive been flying for Over 30 years now and almost 20 of those have been in the left seat of heavy jets, so I’m confident I could hold my own in most real airline ops debates.However I don’t go near any real world pilot forums...far too many bad arrogant attitudes for my liking.

For what it’s worth I too thought @threegreen was asking a genuine polite question out of genuine interest in the subject. I’m sure it’s just a misunderstanding.

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787 captain.  

Previously 24 years on 747-400.Technical advisor on PMDG 747 legacy versions QOTS 1 , FS9 and Aerowinx PS1. 

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