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Scorpio47

Fuel transfer - HELP

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Dear community:

it seems that I still have not mastered the fuel transfer procedure for this beauty.....
I have tried nearly all possible combinations and used the handpump as well as both electric fuel pumps, but there simply is no transfer taking place. The fuel levels in the lower tanks stay where they were before starting the transfer and only the two main tanks are loosing some fuel which was burnt by the four engines of course.....

Can someone please help me to get this right and explain in more detail how to proceed?

As well all know, the manual is pretty foggy on this subject and extensive internet searches did not bring up anything useful either...

Thank you for your help in advance already!

Cheers
Juergen

P.S. I have installed the latest version found on the Pilot´s download page (v1.10 r1.1a PILOTS_Boeing_B314-The_Clipper_P3Dv4v5_110.zip)

Edited by Scorpio47
typo correction

Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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Hello Juergen

I'm betting you've broken the fuel pumps.. 😀. If you have a saved scenario where the fuel transfer doesn't work, go to

C:\Users\{userName}\Documents\Prepar3D v5 Files\

and open the scenario's fxml file with WordPad, NotePad++ or similar. Notepad if you have to...

- Search for "SystemStates.B314"

- Look for "FuelPump1" and "FuelPump2" in that section

If both of these are set to 1 (one), set them to zero and save the fxml file. I have desensitised them in the patch so that they won't break so easily.

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Good evening Dai and THANK YOU for your speedy reply.

I think you are spot on with your diagnosis and I shall reinstall those files, because in those I have, the SystemStates section does not contain any pump at all and looks like this:

<Section Name="SystemStates.B314">
                    <Property Name="WarnLights" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="FuelAir12Upper" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="FuelAir12Lower" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="FuelAir34Upper" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="FuelAir34Lower" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="CarbAir12" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="CarbAir34" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="OilPress12" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="OilPress34" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Autosyn" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Autosyn1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Autosyn2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Autosyn3" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Autosyn4" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="LeftFlaps" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="RightFlaps" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="ASI" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="VSI" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Altimeter1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Altimeter2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="DirGyro" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Whiskey" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="TurnGyro" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Suction1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Suction2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Suction3" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="OAT" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Comm1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Comm2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Nav1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Nav2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="ADF1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="ADF2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine3" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine4" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine1Fire" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine2Fire" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine3Fire" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine4Fire" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine1OilQty" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine2OilQty" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine3OilQty" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine4OilQty" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine1OilPress" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine2OilPress" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine3OilPress" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine4OilPress" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine1Generator" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine2Generator" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine3Generator" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine4Generator" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="WaterPortOutboard" Value="15.78"/>
                    <Property Name="WaterPortInboard" Value="22.23"/>
                    <Property Name="WaterStbdOutboard" Value="9.35"/>
                    <Property Name="WaterStbdInboard" Value="15.76"/>
                    <Property Name="WaterStbdWing" Value="5.90"/>
                    <Property Name="WaterPortWing" Value="14.84"/>
                    <Property Name="RadioCompassReceiver" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="VOR1Channel1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="VOR1Channel2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="VOR2Channel1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="VOR2Channel2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine1Starter" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine2Starter" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine3Starter" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="Engine4Starter" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="DirInd1" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="DirInd2" Value="0"/>
                    <Property Name="DirInd3" Value="0"/>
                </Section>
        </Flight.Sections>

So, for whatever reason the pumps have been confiscated, it seems 😉

I shall make a test with the newly installed versions and let you know that you were right (I have no doubt, therefore no use of IF) 👍

Thanks a lot and have a great time!
Cheers
Juergen

P.S. all values are ZERO with the exception of those containing "water". What does that mean, please?

Edited by Scorpio47

Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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1 minute ago, dragonflightdesign said:

Adding the pumps won't help because they are not part of the 'save/load' process. It works here - I hadn't even realised it was missing until you drew my attention to it. I must have fixed it when overhauling the fuel transfer system, but I don't recall doing it. I do apologise for that. The only thing that I can suggest is that you are very careful to switch the electric pumps off before changing tanks; even so, I know I killed one bug that stopped the electric pumps under some circumstances.

Added to the patch-fixed list.


				<Section Name="SystemStates.B314">
					<Property Name="FuelPump1" Value="0"/>
					<Property Name="FuelPump2" Value="0"/>
					<Property Name="WarnLights" Value="0"/>
					<Property Name="FuelAir12Upper" Value="0"/>
					<Property Name="FuelAir12Lower" Value="0"/>
					<Property Name="FuelAir34Upper" Value="0"/>

 

 

 

Edited by dragonflightdesign

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Thank you again, Dai!
While I do not really understand what you are apologising for, I downloaded and installed the original files from the last version on the site and NONE of the fxml files contains the two lines about the pumps!!!!

So the only way would be to add them manually, but I tried that and it does not seem to make any difference.....
Therefore my question is: where can I find a COMPLETE fxml file or how can I produce one saving a scenario?

It is all a bit weird though....😞

 

EDIT: I saved a new scenario and that fxml file contains the two lines with the state of the 2 pumps. However the plane still does not do any kind of fuel transfer from the hydorstatic tanks to the wing tanks, only those loose fuel due to engine consumption, all other levels stay constant...
This is true for the use of electric pumps AND the hand pump

Edited by Scorpio47

Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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Does anyone else have this problem? Or is it only me?

Please shout......


Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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😀 The data isn't being saved. If it's not saved, it can't be loaded (it's one routine, saving and loading). That's what I'm apologising for; the Save isn't there, so adding the pumps manually isn't going to trigger the Load part. Everyone has the problem.

Your question on the water; it's the amount of water that is in the bottom of the fuel tanks and prevents the tanks from taking a full load (capacity - water = fuel level). You can pump it out - see the checklists.

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That´s what I had feared, Dai....
So nothing to do for now then it seems...  except getting rid of that water 🤗

 

BTW, my secret solution was to change the fuel burn scalar in the aircraft.cfg file from 1.0 to 0.3 or even less. With that setting I reached Gander from Shannon after about 1750 NM...
That was the only way to make it accross the Atlantic without ditching,,,  😉

 

Edited by Scorpio47

Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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Ok, understood Dai.

So what to do?  I installed the latest version again and started a fresh flight with cold and dark plane after loading the default situation in P3D5. Followed the checklists and procedures to start the engines, filled all tanks with 20% of their capacity and took off.

When airborne I started a fuel transfer from one of the starboard tanks to BOTH wing tanks resulting in NO CHANGE (except for the small amount of fuel burnt being gone frome the wing tanks.

If my interpretation of this situation is correct that would mean that in the latest version of the Clipper there is simply no fuel transfer possible and does not seem to have any working pumps.... Please correct me if I am wrong and let us know how to proceed and be able to do long distance flights needing more than the fuel in the wing tanks.

THANK YOU and have a great weekend!
Juergen


Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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Hello Juergen

Fuel transfer works, but the pumps are far too fragile. I just stuck a debugger on the release code and watched them die at random (more often than not) even if the fuel pumps were turned off when the fuel selectors were changed. That, beyond a doubt, was very poor coding on my part. As stated in the upcoming patch notes, fuel transfer has been completely overhauled and the fuel pumps will now only die approximately 40% of the time if you switch tanks when they are running. They will not die under any other circumstances.

Wing tank load should be 50% at takeoff according to Boeing.

-Dai

 

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Thank you, Dai, that was somewhat comforting news....
Actually I have NEVER used the pumps and switched anything on the tanks, always pumps off first, then anything else. But as you said, they are at this stage simply oversensitive, even after a fresh load after the default situation, they do not work...  for a "visible" result in any case.

Should the hand pump work? If yes, that could help me to cross the Oeans...

BTW, with only 50% in the main tanks the plane´s max range is limited to only a few hours (even with full tanks I ditched a few times into the North Atlantic on my attempts to cross from Gander to Shannon....)

So it seems all we can do at this time is wait for the next iteration to be published and to hope that it will be soon 😉

THANK YOU for all your work and your continued support. Have a great weekened! Your earned it! 👌

Juergen

 

Edited by Scorpio47

Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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Sorry for coming back to this one last time, Dai.

You said above that the fuel transfer works (which would explain the very slight differences in fuel levels in the receiving and feeding tanks) and most probably the pumps break within seconds of using them.

That should, however, not affect the hand pumps, right?

If this is a "fragility problem" for the electric pumps, hand pumps should still work (they were conceived for cases like that when the electric equipment would no longer work I guess....).
Can you give me a hint on how to do a fuel transfer in this condition using only the hand pump?

THANK YOU!
And cheers
Jürgen


Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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Erm... hand pumps don't work. It's a bug; I found it when fixing the electric pumps. It's fixed now.

This all makes me sound like a really poor developer... 😬

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On 3/12/2021 at 6:49 PM, dragonflightdesign said:

Erm... hand pumps don't work. It's a bug; I found it when fixing the electric pumps. It's fixed now.

This all makes me sound like a really poor developer... 😬

Don´t make your work look bad, dear Dai, you actually did a GREAT job.
The old Romans already told us "ERRARE HUMANUM EST" and we have to live with that forever.... 😉

All I would like to see now asap is the publication of your latest updates and fixes and I hope you will find the time for that very soon.

The whole community is grateful to you for all the work you have done and are still doing!
Enjoy your weekend and take good care of yourself and your loved ones, please.

Cheers
Jürgen


Juergen Vollmer

Flight sim enthusiast and real life pilot

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