DX12

[Republic3D 1,231]

On 3/6/2021 at 6:21 AM, bobcat999 said:

Well firstly, I hope we get the choice to select either DX11 or DX12 at start up, as there will be some teething troubles with DX12, it is to be expected.

Secondly, DLSS 2.0 works very well in other games and could bring proper performance gains if they implement it in MSFS.  What worried me was that they seemed a bit perplexed when DLSS was mentioned in a recent twitch.   A bit worrying! 

Thirdly, I didn't hear them say anything about a 20 percent performance increase just due to how they can optimise the trees.  The trees don't have that much of a performance impact anyway. I have an old gpu running at 4k 70 percent scaling, and with the tree mod (trees to the horizon) it has no significant impact, so they would find it hard to get a 20 percent performance benefit just from optimising the trees.  I did hear them say they found a way of quadrupling the trees without any performance impact. Apparently, they make them wider at the moment to cover more ground, which I never noticed, but with the tree optimisation they can make them the correct width. Why didn't Matthew's notice this? 

Yep I don't think we'll see DLSS 2.0 any time soon. DLSS requires the game developer to run machine learning for optimizing the game/sim. It's all happening on the dev side. 

We might get DX12 in the near future, because Microsoft is likely champing at the bit (pun intended) to get this sim on XBox. But I doubt it will be very optimized from the start. We'll likely go through several updates before it's really stable.

In my experience: When it comes to DX11 vs DX12 improvements in other games, the difference is often a smoother performance. Not necessarily a lot more FPS, but better frame times, less stuttering and less workload on the CPU and more on the GPU. G-Sync seems to work a lot better on DX12 as well. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Republic3D

[dobee51 348]

I seem to recall that the change from DX9 to DX10 broke FSX. Aircraft loaded with no textures, and other anomalies.

[AllRed 53]

So the consensus is that the exciting new thing that should realistically improve things.. is ultimately going to be totally underwhelming and disappointing 😂

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

2 minutes ago, AllRed said:

So the consensus is that the exciting new thing that should realistically improve things.. is ultimately going to be totally underwhelming and disappointing 😂

Haha, well you never know, they may surprise us by finding another issue at the same time.

 

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

1 hour ago, dobee51 said:

I seem to recall that the change from DX9 to DX10 broke FSX. Aircraft loaded with no textures, and other anomalies.

With DX10 Fixer all that was fixed and the performance greatly improved over DX9.

[Snuffleupagus 327]

So I had a thought today as I was flying around KLAS. My 1080ti VRAM usage is 10.5GB out of a total 11GB available. When running DX12, wont this be an issue if I'm already using that much VRAM with DX11? The sim is running smooth and looks great as it is right now for me, I hope I won't have to dial back settings when DX12 comes out...

Edited March 27, 2021 by pvupilot

[quantumpion 39]

On 3/9/2021 at 10:51 AM, Republic3D said:

Yep I don't think we'll see DLSS 2.0 any time soon. DLSS requires the game developer to run machine learning for optimizing the game/sim. It's all happening on the dev side.

I don't think that is true for DLSS 2.0, that was a limitation of DLSS 1.0.

[jimcarrel 688]

29 minutes ago, pvupilot said:

So I had a thought today as I was flying around KLAS. My 1080ti VRAM usage is 10.5GB out of a total 11GB available. When running DX12, wont this be an issue if I'm already using that much VRAM with DX11? The sim is running smooth and looks great as it is right now for me, I hope I won't have to dial back settings when DX12 comes out...

You are on the right track in your thinking. My 6 gig card did fine in P?D in DX11, but when they went to DX12 I had to pick and choose which plane and what scenery settings to run. DX11 gives you way more headroom in max Vram usage, DX12 when you get close to your Max Vram, it likes to shut you down. 

[akita 429]

48 minutes ago, jimcarrel said:

You are on the right track in your thinking. My 6 gig card did fine in P?D in DX11, but when they went to DX12 I had to pick and choose which plane and what scenery settings to run. DX11 gives you way more headroom in max Vram usage, DX12 when you get close to your Max Vram, it likes to shut you down. 

 

1 hour ago, pvupilot said:

So I had a thought today as I was flying around KLAS. My 1080ti VRAM usage is 10.5GB out of a total 11GB available. When running DX12, wont this be an issue if I'm already using that much VRAM with DX11? The sim is running smooth and looks great as it is right now for me, I hope I won't have to dial back settings when DX12 comes out...

No.

With DX12 memory management is up to the app rather than a driver overhead.

This means that it all depends on how efficient the implementation is by the developers, while previously, it was up to whatever code older APIs had to manage memory typically tested by Nvidia/AMD and most hardware companies.

So you shouldn't point your fingers toward DX12, other than the fact that it is harder and more time consuming but worth it due to the total control, tools, performance predictability and parallelized rendering...and lastly to keep up with future graphics features, but mostly for performance.

Edited March 27, 2021 by akita

[Republic3D 1,231]

5 hours ago, quantumpion said:

I don't think that is true for DLSS 2.0, that was a limitation of DLSS 1.0.

It doesn't have to be designed for each game, but it needs to be trained on each game.

 

• DLSS 2.0:
  The neural networks were trained using the ideal high-resolution images of a game using a high-end computer and also there lower resolution images. The result would be stored in the video card driver.
  The neural network stored in the driver compares the actual low-resolution images with the reference images and produce a full high-resolution result image. The trained neural networks use the low-resolution image as well as the low-resolution motion vector from the game engine as the input. The motion vectors help the networks to determine in which direction the object in the frame is moving and is used to determine the upcoming frames.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

6 hours ago, Republic3D said:

It doesn't have to be designed for each game, but it needs to be trained on each game.

 

• DLSS 2.0:
  The neural networks were trained using the ideal high-resolution images of a game using a high-end computer and also there lower resolution images. The result would be stored in the video card driver.
  The neural network stored in the driver compares the actual low-resolution images with the reference images and produce a full high-resolution result image. The trained neural networks use the low-resolution image as well as the low-resolution motion vector from the game engine as the input. The motion vectors help the networks to determine in which direction the object in the frame is moving and is used to determine the upcoming frames.

AI never works like people say, Tesla still cannot even use it correctly and look how much resources they have. It mostly only works good for deriving data and in analytics, because when you derive data there is no consequence to being wrong, or you never realized there was a bug in the data. When a self-driving car has a bug, it's obvious to the end result. Half the time people claim something is AI, it really isn't anyhow.

That type of AI doing much of anything sounds like a pipe dream, it may help a little, but it's probably over-hyped.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Alpine Scenery