Suspect Freeware Models Used In Payware Product

[FLJeff337 12]

I have a dilemma, and I'm looking for some advice...

Just recently, a developer released a payware version of an airport (for MSFS) that I had modeled several years ago as freeware (and uploaded to Avsim).

While I don't yet have MSFS, I still looked at the screenshots that were posted as it is an airport I am very familiar with, and I was curious to see what it looked like when modeled by a dedicated scenery developer.

However, as I was looking at the screenshots, I got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that some of the models I was looking at in the screenshots may have been taken and used without my knowledge or permission.

It's not that there were just mere similarities between my models and the ones I was looking at in the screenshots (which would be expected if two competent modelers modeled the same real-world object), but rather things that look exactly like my models (for instance, detailed 3D guardrails at stairs/ramps that match exactly, rooftop equipment/ antennas, etc.). Furthermore, one of the models in my scenery has several glitches in it that show up in the screenshots of the payware versions as well (matching the size, location, shape that they occur in my model).

With that being said, it looks like the developer did do a commendable job with the scenery as a whole, adding many elements that I did not model. Unfortunately, it looks like part of the scenery package may include several models of mine that I did not give permission to use.

So I suppose my first question would be how could I find out if the models I think are mine really are mine, and if they are, what should my next action be?

Should I first reach out to the developer and ask them about it (in the possibility they were misled about the origin or usage rights of the models I believe are mine - i.e. an honest mistake)? Should I reach out to a website (like fselite) with the evidence supporting my suspicions (such as comparison screenshots, and screenshots of my process, including 2D and 3D CAD models)? Is there someone here who could analyze the models themselves to see if they match (remember that I don't have MSFS, so I've only seen the product via their screenshots)?

When I uploaded my scenery to Avsim, I accepted that someone may take it and upload it to a shady website elsewhere (perhaps even for a fee), however it feels different when you see what you think is your work in a scenery by a known developer.

I wouldn't be voicing this concern of mine if I thought there was a chance I could be mistaken, but when the models look identical (including modeling errors), felt that I had to bring it up instead of being reluctant to come forward in the slight chance I might be mistaken.

Looking for some advice...

Thanks,

Jeff

[Armchair Pilot 261]

If its clear cut just reach out to the dev or dude selling your work. If they become difficult you can try simmarket support... i doubt that would help as it seems the site sells anything now.

[honanhal 1,420]

I'd reach out to the developer first, but would go in expecting them simply to deny it. From there you could either go to FS Elite or contact any retailers selling the product (obviously not an option if the developer is selling through a storefront of their own).

Whatever you think about the ethics of appropriating freeware for other freeware without crediting the author or getting permission, a payware product doing the same is absolutely beyond the pale. If you don't get a satisfactory answer I hope you'll let the community know.

James

[Chock 17,769]

Difficult to prove without absolutely irrefutable evidence. As preposterous and unlikely as it is, someone could just possibly claim that it was merely a 'remarkable coincidence' that something appeared similar.

Unfortunately without any sort of traceable file ID for the models, there's no way you could absolutely claim otherwise, although in fairness, obvious is usually really obvious. But be aware that the developer or publisher may have used a freelancer who allegedly used your stuff, so the developer and/or publisher might conceivably be completely unaware of any plagiarism having occurred.

If you are certain it is yours however, and have the necessary files to compare and make a convincing claim (the upload date for the Avsim file would be strong supporting evidence for the chronology of the claim at least), then contact the developer to see if they can come to some sort of agreement with you, either re-doing their model, taking off the market and/or paying you a cut of the money they have received for it. Be polite rather than going in guns blazing, but if you get nowhere and you are sure of your claim, that's the time to name them.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Chock

[CJ1045 469]

The internet leaves a trail so not difficult for anyone to trace the history on this. As a result it is easy for the rest of the world to also see that they are using your models made way before MSFS. I would, therefore, approach the developer. It looks like that they have a large number of airports for pretty low prices so they might well be other conversions too.

CJ

[cianpars 1,163]

If this happened to me, I would write to the developer asking for an explanation.  If I did not received an explanation or was not satisfied with the explanation, then I would write again claiming damages amounting to an appropriate percentage of the developers estimated profits. If I remained dissatisfied, I would warn of my intention to bring a case in the relevant court.

This assumes that you have sufficient proof that the work belongs to you and that any financial recompense is worth the time, effort and cost.

[Bob Scott 7,715]

I think it's fairly simple and convincing to demonstrate when a model or texture image matches, bit for bit, another's work. 

I think the best way to approach this is to send that evidence to the offender and offer them the opportunity to make it right, with the clear understanding that if they do not, you will make it widely known.

[cianpars 1,163]

5 minutes ago, w6kd said:

I think it's fairly simple and convincing to demonstrate when a model or texture image matches, bit for bit, another's work. 

I think the best way to approach this is to send that evidence to the offender and offer them the opportunity to make it right, with the clear understanding that if they do not, you will make it widely known.

Hitting them in the pocket might hurt more

[Phantoms 800]

5 minutes ago, cianpars said:

Hitting them in the pocket might hurt more

Hurt who more? Taking legal action is a very expensive and time involved endeavor with a very good chance of cost never being recouped.

[cianpars 1,163]

16 minutes ago, Phantoms said:

Hurt who more? Taking legal action is a very expensive and time involved endeavor with a very good chance of cost never being recouped.

Depends on the juristiction.  In the UK, the small claims court is cheap and easy and does not require a lawyer. Some countries also have a trading standards organisation you can use.

[SmokeDiddy 262]

I would also consider the space for which they might have acquired the model/artwork, if they in fact are using it.  For example, there is such a thing as public domain which no claims can be sought if someone else uses it - "if" it is considered part of that public domain space.  It may be very difficult to prove your case, but do your homework first to ensure your model didn't end up in a public domain along with the other suggestions in this thread.  I hope you get resolution.

[FLJeff337 12]

First off, thanks to everyone that took the time to respond. I would have replied sooner, but have been working all morning.

I think I'll first reach out to the developer and mention my concerns (including offering the evidence that led me to think some of my models may have been used without my knowledge). They seem to have a pretty good reputation, and if in fact some of my models were used (as I suspect they were), I'm hoping it was unintentional and unknown to the team as whole.

I think my case is fairly strong for at least two of the buildings (I don't have MSFS or the airport scenery, so I can't examine it in depth). My model has a small triangular sliver missing from part of one of the roofs (a result of a polygon normal face that wasn't flipped, making it look transparent), and this shows up exactly the same (same location, shape and size) in the developer's screenshot of the same building. Also, one of my columns didn't extend all the way to the sloped entrance walk, and you can see this same column floating slightly in the developer screenshots as well). Intricate 3D modeled elements (including railing at stairs and ramps, rooftop equipment, etc.) also looks virtually identical.

As I said, I hope this was just the case of one bad actor (either someone unaffiliated with the developer who at some point took my models and posted them to a 3D model warehouse claiming them as his own, or perhaps someone on the developer's team who got lazy, used my models claiming them as his/her own and misled the rest of the team without their knowledge), and that the developer will review my claim and act accordingly.

Thanks for all your thoughts.

Thanks,

Jeff