1 hour ago, Rene_Feijen said:

I can steer all planes on the runway rather effortlessly during takeoff I use, C152, C172, Vertigo, DA42, Power Solo, A320, CJ4 and I love the JF Piper Arrow, but is almost impossible to steer the Arrow correctly on the runway, even without any wind, I overcorrect and go wildly from left to right and vice versa.

I had that problem and worked out it was mainly a trim issue. The aircraft spawns trimmed nose wheel heavy with too much flap.

Try this and let us know if it helps:

1) set no flaps - zilch - none at all        edit: flaps optional though POH says no flaps for normal take-off

2) set rudder trim clockwise  (little knob under throttle) to around +5 degrees    edit: rudder trim optional optional

3) set elevator trim to 5 degrees of nose up (in other words back a bit on the indicator between the seats from centre so it is at the top of the white marker to the right)  edit: nose up trim ESSENTIAL  -    but about +1 or  +2 degrees is better

4) gradually roll on the throttle to full and keep yoke neutral

EDIT:    After experimenting it is nose up trim that fixes the issue - at least one degree but not too much

 

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

Perhaps the flap moment is excessive and needs a tweak?

2 minutes ago, hangar said:

Perhaps the flap moment is excessive and needs a tweak?

I never use flaps on takeoff. My normal short runway is around 2000- 2500 feet and flaps are really not needed. 

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Bobsk8

1 minute ago, hangar said:

Perhaps the flap moment is excessive and needs a tweak?

The POH for the arrow says no flaps unless it is a short field take-off.   Also you need slight nose up trim.  I think the main issue is the aircraft spawns in the wrong configuration for takeoff with lots of flap and neutral/nose down trim that tricks people.

How I setup the Arrow for take off - may not be 100% correct for a real Arrow but works for me in game:

 

.

Yes but if the issue is with the flaps then wouldn't they also effect the rollout after landings since they'd be in full down position?

2 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

The POH for the arrow says no flaps unless it is a short field take-off.   Also you need slight nose up trim.  I think the main issue is the aircraft spawns in the wrong configuration for takeoff with lots of flap and neutral/nose down trim that tricks people.

How I setup the Arrow for take off - may not be 100% correct for a real Arrow but works for me in game:

 

.

Mine has never spawned with any flaps. Do you have config save on, and you don't raise flaps after landing? Also, my trim is always in the takeoff position. 

 

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Bobsk8

12 minutes ago, hangar said:

Yes but if the issue is with the flaps then wouldn't they also effect the rollout after landings since they'd be in full down position?

The main issue is the trim needs to be set nose up.  The flaps just do not help but are not the real issue.

As for flaps on roll out -  you are not applying throttle when rolling out (plus your trim would be nose up after landing anyway).  

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

13 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Mine has never spawned with any flaps. Do you have config save on, and you don't raise flaps after landing? Also, my trim is always in the takeoff position. 

 

Quite possibly 😄

Maybe I am wrong about it spawning that way by default.

However the problem described by Rene above is what you get with nose down trim and applying take-off power -  which is then exasperated by flaps.  Basically the power is trying to wheelbarrow the plane on the nose wheel. 

If he applies a touch of nose up trim and optionally drops any flaps that are set it should take-off fine.

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

Just now, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Quite possibly 😄

Maybe I am wrong about it spawning that way by default.

However the problem described by Rene above is what you get with nose down trim and applying takeoff power -  which is then exasperated by flaps. If he applies a touch of nose up trim and drops any flaps that are set it should take-off fine.

I use neutral trim which is the default takeoff trim in the Arrow. Never had to touch it elevator trim, or rudder trim either. The problem I and some others have seen is the nosewheel steering is way to sensitive, and at the higher end of the takeoff roll, the aircraft starts S turning prior to rotation when trying to apply minor rudder pressures to keep aircraft on the centerline. . Rudder assist pretty much fixes that. As for yaw, after rotation, just some normal rudder usually takes care of that.

The problem with rudder assist, is that what it really is is controlling the rudder with your ailerons. You can actually taxi the aircraft just using your aileron controller. This makes it unrealistic to apply correct crosswind correction during takeoff, because if you have a wind from the left, and you apply aileron into the wind, you are at the same time applying left rudder. Hard to apply left aileron to keep the wind from getting under the wing, and at the same time keeping some right rudder to counteract weather vanning and torque effects. 

6 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I use neutral trim which is the default takeoff trim in the Arrow. Never had to touch it elevator trim, or rudder trim either. The problem I and some others have seen is the nosewheel steering is way to sensitive, and at the higher end of the takeoff roll, the aircraft starts S turning prior to rotation when trying to apply minor rudder pressures to keep aircraft on the centerline. . Rudder assist pretty much fixes that. As for yaw, after rotation, just some normal rudder usually takes care of that.

The problem with rudder assist, is that what it really is is controlling the rudder with your ailerons. You can actually taxi the aircraft just using your aileron controller. This makes it unrealistic to apply correct crosswind correction during takeoff, because if you have a wind from the left, and you apply aileron into the wind, you are at the same time applying left rudder. Hard to apply left aileron to keep the wind from getting under the wing, and at the same time keeping some right rudder to counteract weather vanning and torque effects. 

OK ...

Well I tested it again. Flaps are not making a huge difference.  I may be on the wrong track there.

However slight nose up trim totally eliminates the oversensitive ground steering and tendency to S turn.  With a fraction of nose up trim it takes off normally.

That of course is just in my game it may be totally different for other people on other controllers with different sensitivities. 

Works much better with trim 5 degrees up and the rudder trim! Thnks.

 

Will also try without the rudder trim, only pitch trim.

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Rene_Feijen

Just now, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

OK ...

Well I tested it again. Flaps are not making a huge difference.  I may be on the wrong track there.

However slight nose up trim totally eliminates the oversensitive ground steering and tendency to S turn.  With a fraction of nose up trim it takes off normally.

That of course is just in my game it may be totally different for other people on other controllers with different sensitivities. 

I will give that a try. What speed are you rotating the Arrow at?

 

3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

The problem with rudder assist, is that what it really is is controlling the rudder with your ailerons. You can actually taxi the aircraft just using your aileron controller. This makes it unrealistic to apply correct crosswind correction during takeoff, because if you have a wind from the left, and you apply aileron into the wind, you are at the same time applying left rudder. Hard to apply left aileron to keep the wind from getting under the wing, and at the same time keeping some right rudder to counteract weather vanning and torque effects

This is same as a cross controlled approach/landing. Sounds like turning on this assist is actually the auto-rudder feature from previous sims like FSX, no? I won't be using it.

In any case though, I can't help but wonder why in the world don't these aircraft developers pay any attention to stuff like this?...they should be designing their flight models to overcome whatever blemishes are within the base sim's physics...there are probably less than a handful of payware devs that will do this and I don't understand why they ALL don't do it...it's really their job, not ours. For me, it's the reason I'm willing to pay for an aircraft.

1 minute ago, Rene_Feijen said:

Works much better with trim 5 degrees up and the rudder trim! Thnks.

 

Will also try without the rudder trim, only pitch trim.

I have been experimenting - you may get away with as little as 1 or 2 degrees nose up trim .

6 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I will give that a try. What speed are you rotating the Arrow at?

 

Well with too much nose up trim it rotates itself 😄

But otherwise, around 65 knots I think, basically whenever it wants to fly.

EDIT: 1 degree nose up and one notch flaps 65 knots, no flaps more like 75 knots

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick