Qw 787 ETOPS

[mikeymike 357]

Hey guys, how would you go about setting up etops in the fmc?

is it via the fix page? In the 777 I would enter the fix by the leg 2 page.

the 787 does not allow for route 2 leg.

so I guess via the fix page?

i could not find a tutorial on this.

cheers 

mike

[mpo910 2,112]

7 minutes ago, mikeymike said:

Hey guys, how would you go about setting up etops in the fmc?

is it via the fix page? In the 777 I would enter the fix by the leg 2 page.

the 787 does not allow for route 2 leg.

so I guess via the fix page?

i could not find a tutorial on this.

cheers 

mike

Just like Our write....FIX page is the way I use it too. 

Just a bit limited...but distance and radial can be used

[mikeymike 357]

7 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Just like Our write....FIX page is the way I use it too. 

Just a bit limited...but distance and radial can be used

Thank you

do you know of a good tutorial that is fine via fix pages.

Thanks 

mike

[mpo910 2,112]

19 minutes ago, mikeymike said:

Thank you

do you know of a good tutorial that is fine via fix pages.

Thanks 

mike

I can't remember. But I would google the ETOPS topic....you will surely find a lot about this. Google ETOPS FMC programming or something similar. 

[cyyzrwy24 118]

43 minutes ago, mikeymike said:

the 787 does not allow for route 2 leg.

Why would you need RTE 2? just use fix to simplify. If you use Simbrief scroll down to ETOPS and enter values....

[mikeymike 357]

Thanks guys, I will search some videos.

I did use the values from simbrief.

Thou I think I did not enter values correct in the fix page.

rings are wrong.

mike

 

[cyyzrwy24 118]

with q787 few things can go wrong....Haven't used it after update. But I've been using on PMDG very often and works nicely. Use DIST for your value and try, should make rings correctly for IN/OUT WPTS.

[jon b 2,041]

Just put 436nm fix rings around your ETOPS alternates to show entry and exit from ETOPS

[mikeymike 357]

3 minutes ago, jon b said:

Just put 436nm fix rings around your ETOPS alternates to show entry and exit from ETOPS

Thanks Jon,

does 436 nm apply to all ?

for instance 120min, 180min etc, I have set up 330min for the 787 I believe from yssy to Santiago Chile.

cheers 

mike

[jon b 2,041]

Bear in mind I’m new to this ETOPS malarkey so there maybe someone with more experience in the matter who can explain things better than me. But this is how it works from my understanding.

Any time a twin engine aircraft flies beyond 60 minutes from an adequate airfield at one engine out speed, nil wind, you’re into ETOPS operations. 
 

This is where you’re 60 minutes 436nm ring comes in , so you know when you’re entering or leaving ETOPS. That’s what’s important to you.

The other ETOPS times  you mention , eg 180 minutes would have  been part of the flight planning Process and you should have a chart generated with these time/range rings around your alternate airports to prove that the route remains within these limits at all times . Your flight plan will state despatched under 180 ETOPS for example.These airfields have to have weather conditions which meet the enhanced ETOPS planning minima for the weather  window, which is the time you’d expect to arrive there should you divert, plus or minus a time margin either side.This includes cloud base, visibility, wind etc.

Unless you have a significant re route which takes you outside these flight planning ETOPS distances , you don’t need to worry or keep track of them. But of course you can put in a Fix range ring if you wanted.

Its the entry and exit to ETOPS that your interested in , as to continue into the ETOPS area you have to check the weather at your ETOPS alternate airports Is still good. The weather now at this stage actually only has to be above operational minima , rather than the enhanced ETOPS minima used at the planning stage. It should also be noted that if once you’ve actually entered the ETOPS area and the alternate weather Should fall below operational minima you would still continue.

Each airline will have their own engine out speeds for ETOPS approved by the relevant regulator but for the other times you asked about these are common:

436nm. 60 mins

644nm 90 mins

853nm 120 mins

1276nm 180 mins

Remember these are zero wind engine out figures , in reality it might actually take you more or less than 180 minutes to divert from the edge of the ring, it’s actually a distance limit.

As I say there’ll be someone knocking about on here who maybe able to help you with ETOPS in more detail than me. I’ve spent years on 4 engine jets so never dealt with it in the past. And in my sim I right the rules so ETOPS doesn’t exist, and neither do the low flying regulations 😂

[mwa05 108]

Just to add a bit more to what Jon has outlined...

The EDTO requirements differ when an aircraft is dispatched up to 180mins from when it is dispatched beyond 180mins. There are additional planning considerations when flights are planned EDTO beyond 180 minutes;

For EDTO beyond 180 minutes, you cannot list an airport as an EDTO Alternate Airport if the time needed to fly to that airport:

1. At the all engine operating cruise speed, corrected for wind and temperature, exceeds the aircrafts most limiting fire suppression system time minus 15 minutes for those cargo and baggage compartments required by regulation to have fire suppression systems.  

2. At the one engine inoperative cruise speed, corrected for wind and temperature, exceeds the aircrafts most limiting EDTO significant system time (other than the aircrafts most limiting fire suppression system time minus 15 minutes for those cargo and baggage compartments required by regulation to have fire suppression systems). 

For the B789 aircraft the critical time limitations are as follows;

1.EDTO – 345mins minus a 15-minute buffer = 330mins

2.Fire Suppression – 300mins minus a 15-minute buffer = 285mins

Note that flight plans must abide by BOTH of the above time limitations.

At my airline, Flight plans are produced with EDTO rings that have been calculated using wind and temperature. When this occurs, the rings are no longer a circle but look a bit more like what could be described as a “potato”!

There are 3 predefined OEI speeds available for the B789;

M085-290KT

M085-310KT

M085-330KT

For example, a speed of M085/330kt will produce a range of 2317nm.

The default we use is:

Speed: M0.85/290kt

ETOPS Rule: 409nm

ETOPS Usable: 2159nm

However, some sectors benefit from the faster speeds (LHR/CDG/FRA/JNB/SCL/SYD Antarctic).

 

For example SCL-SYD

 

ETOPS Rule: 441nm

ETOPS Usable: 2317nm

ETOPS Speed: M0.85/330kt

Regards,

Mark

[mikeymike 357]

Thank you all for the informative response.

cheers 

mike