I've been a hater ....

[Nyxx 6,993]

 🤣😂

Edited April 7, 2021 by Nyxx

[eslader 1,783]

14 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

And Mr. Nyxx has still not provided a shred of evidence for his claim that the FbW guys will never reach "FSL level" (whatever that means).

I don't understand why they'd be expected to. It's very unlikely they will, anymore than Zibo will ever eclipse PMDG. That's not a detraction from them. Their product, like Zibo's, is awesome. They could make it payware if they wanted to, and people would happily fork over money for it. But they're hobbyist developers doing this on their own time and with whatever resources they can get. That's not going to let them compete with an established for-profit dev house that has the clout and/or money to get access to things FBW can't. 

I think it's an unfair expectation that FBW will eventually make a plane that's as good as or better than FSL's, and it detracts from the astounding quality of FBW's work as a standalone product. If DaVinci gives you the Mona Lisa for free, the proper response is "Thank you, and this is really excellent work!"  The proper response is not "well it's pretty, but it's no Sistine Chapel."

 

[Nyxx 6,993]

1 minute ago, eslader said:

I don't understand why they'd be expected to. It's very unlikely they will, anymore than Zibo will ever eclipse PMDG. That's not a detraction from them. Their product, like Zibo's, is awesome. They could make it payware if they wanted to, and people would happily fork over money for it. But they're hobbyist developers doing this on their own time and with whatever resources they can get. That's not going to let them compete with an established for-profit dev house that has the clout and/or money to get access to things FBW can't. 

I think it's an unfair expectation that FBW will eventually make a plane that's as good as or better than FSL's, and it detracts from the astounding quality of FBW's work as a standalone product. If DaVinci gives you the Mona Lisa for free, the proper response is "Thank you, and this is really excellent work!"  The proper response is not "well it's pretty, but it's no Sistine Chapel."

 

No point in tell him, nicely put BTW.

[omarsmak30 4,068]

Sometimes I wonder, can we just enjoy flying instead of these debates? 😄. 

[amahran 47]

1 minute ago, omarsmak30 said:

Sometimes I wonder, can we just enjoy flying instead of these debates? 😄. 

This is AVSIM, your expectations are too high.

[jarmstro 2,402]

34 minutes ago, eslader said:

I don't understand why they'd be expected to. It's very unlikely they will, anymore than Zibo will ever eclipse PMDG. That's not a detraction from them. Their product, like Zibo's, is awesome. They could make it payware if they wanted to, and people would happily fork over money for it. But they're hobbyist developers doing this on their own time and with whatever resources they can get. That's not going to let them compete with an established for-profit dev house that has the clout and/or money to get access to things FBW can't. 

I think it's an unfair expectation that FBW will eventually make a plane that's as good as or better than FSL's, and it detracts from the astounding quality of FBW's work as a standalone product. If DaVinci gives you the Mona Lisa for free, the proper response is "Thank you, and this is really excellent work!"  The proper response is not "well it's pretty, but it's no Sistine Chapel."

 

Personally I prefer using the FlyByWire A320nx and seeing and enjoying it develop over an overblown and very overpriced piece of bloat ware which trashes my FPS at the cost of systems I'm never going to use in reality. Twiddling the circuit breakers may do it for some but count me out.

[Ricardo41 5,949]

1 hour ago, eslader said:

 But they're hobbyist developers doing this on their own time and with whatever resources they can get. That's not going to let them compete with an established for-profit dev house that has the clout and/or money to get access to things FBW can't. 

Just a couple of months ago the WT guys were pretty much "hobbyists doing this on their own time and with whatever resources they can get." Now they have their own outfit and under contract with Microsoft. 

Yeah, just a bunch of hobbyists doing this on their own time.....😂

[Gazzareth 808]

4 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Just a couple of months ago the WT guys were pretty much "hobbyists doing this on their own time and with whatever resources they can get." Now they have their own outfit and under contract with Microsoft. 

Yeah, just a bunch of hobbyists doing this on their own time.....😂

... plus they have already upgraded the CJ4 to the most complete modern business jet I've ever seen in a flight sim, and they are still going at it.

Certainly got me flying in FS more than p3d, now if they can sort VNAV on the G3000/G5000...

G

[Neutrino Flux 64]

4 minutes ago, cobalt said:

You are most welcome. Always happy to help!

You did such an excellent job ! Well done ! Nothing like reinforcing what has already been said. I like your style !

[charliearon 3,024]

Any more back and forth bickering and this topic will magically disappear! 

[Maxis 1,864]

4 hours ago, kaosfere said:

As I discovered the last time this came up, there seems to be an unspoken rule here that FSLabs talk will be deleted.  I'm going to avoid talking about my opinions on the events themselves, but I'll note that I sent an email asking directly why a comment of mine and followups got deleted a few days ago, and the thread they were in locked without any explanation, and was told that the policy at Avsim is that FSLabs discussion is unwelcome because it causes too much discord.  But it seems that, for some reason, rather than simply locking threads that get out of control, as is done with other topics, they instead prefer to memory-hole the entire incident because it is "old news" and causes too much trouble.

This comment will probably be removed, as will the other ones talking about these events.  But maybe it'll alert a few folks to the fact that, unlike other controversial topics, this one apparently can't even be mentioned here.   Make of that what you will.

I did notice that Avsim cleaned up the thread and thanks for posting about it. If you hadn't brought up what FSlabs had done in the past some of us (myself included) would have been none the wiser and purchased their product if and when it does port over to MSFS2020.

I cannot support developers who do stuff like that. As a developer you have a right to disable your program and withdraw your license if you suspect its being abused or was obtained illegally. Not to treat yourself to any of my information that has no relevance to your product.

I presume this thread will go the same direction but i wanted thank you about letting us know.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Maxis

[eslader 1,783]

56 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Just a couple of months ago the WT guys were pretty much "hobbyists doing this on their own time and with whatever resources they can get." Now they have their own outfit and under contract with Microsoft. 

You're right, and that's a great story. But it's rare.

Bill Gates dropped out of college to start Microsoft. That doesn't mean it was a smart idea when my niece dropped out of college. She drives a forklift now for minimum wage and wonders why she can't get a better job. Hers is the typical "I dropped out of school" story. Bill Gates is an extreme edge case. WT is also an extreme edge case.

 

[Will Fly For Cheese 1,710]

54 minutes ago, charliearon said:

Any more back and forth bickering and this topic will magically disappear! 

Quite honestly Charlie I'd push the plunger down now and save us from further angst - it's only going in one direction.

Everyone seems in a frightfully bad mood today.

[MattNischan 3,778]

1 hour ago, eslader said:

You're right, and that's a great story. But it's rare.

I would somewhat punctuate this a bit here. Three of us have been developers for a decade or more, and four of us have been in IT or owned IT businesses for the last 15-20 years. Leading this kind of effort is exactly what we have already been doing, so it's a pretty lateral move. A very exciting one, indeed, but not one where hobbyist coders leapt off the page into a dream job.

We all have a good deal of experience building large (like 500K-1M LOC size with a bunch of distributed services) systems from the ground up and managing large projects, and the icing on the cake is that there's also 20+ years of pilot experience on the team. So while I really do appreciate the mythos and the kind words, the reality is that this is pretty much what we do. 🙂

-Matt

[cobalt 798]

2 hours ago, charliearon said:

Any more back and forth bickering and this topic will magically disappear! 

Let's hope ...