OK let us be honest here.

Back when I still flew real life aircraft .. I did it as a game.  It was not a job, or a practical means of travel (light aircraft are one of the most impractical means of travel known to man, fly away for the weekend and it rains and your leaving the aircraft and taking a bus home or skipping work)   Real world flying was entirely and only for fun.

I also own a real world motorcycle and I do that entirely for fun. I could make up some sort of fake reason for the expense like it is more economical on fuel than my car but that would be a total lie, I ride for fun, it is a game.

If you  do something for fun, it makes it a game.

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

13 minutes ago, bhx22 said:

I'm getting bored of these people who whinge about everything.

If you don't like it don't play it all sims are inherently games they are not real life what do you think P3D is a real life situation its a sim which is basically a game.

Good one! The dust will never settle here! The views in this thread will carry on for decades. Some people even consider real life as a game at times. You never know what life has in store for us, one day to the next. Some things work as planned, some do not. All is good for a while and then life throws a curve ball. We make the best from what we are dealt to maximize the enjoyment in life.

Blue skies!

8 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

OK let us be honest here.Back when I still flew real life aircraft .. I did it as a game.

If you  do something for fun, it makes it a game.

 

How true Glenn! What a great perspective! I fly every week and I must say, mapping out a new destination and route on ForeFlight is as much fun in real life as it is in the sim!

I think the real problem is that some people think that "games" are for kids. Get over that, and the problem effectively resolves itself.

So if they gave it a Windows 95 inspired UI, with drab grey windows full of command buttons and combo boxes, would that make it less 'game' more 'sim'? 🤔

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by Tom Wright

I've been PLAYING flight sims since at least '95, maybe earlier.  I really can't recall.  I quit totally in 2013.  At that time I was spending a lot of time with FSX and DCS.  It was taking up too much of my time and I just couldn't afford the super computer needed to run either game smoothly.  I didn't completely give up, I saved about $500 a year and when I saw on YouTube the announcement from MS/Asobo about MSFS I spent 4 Grand on a near state of the art gaming computer.  I put as much as possible into the CPU/GPU as I could and I spent less on monitor and peripherals.  

I'm EXTREMELY satisfied with MSFS and my decisions regarding a gaming rig.

Bottom line, IMHO, Asobo has exactly the same problem that the AVSIM community has, and they are diametrically opposed.  

I was NOT part of the pre-release Beta, but from what I read here and other places, it was rather contentious.

The problems that existed back then still exist, only they are WAY worse now.

Asobo doesn't trust the Beta testers.  They never did.  Asobo thinks the beta testers are a bunch of whiny, entitiled old men.  Asobo is RIGHT.

The beta testers, (i.e. Avsim users), don't trust Asobo.  They never did.  They haven't trusted anyone associated with MS since Bruce Artwick.  The beta testers think that Asobo is a bunch of uppity, Frenchified gamers, and being a gamer is one step above pond scum.  The beta testers (Avsim) are RIGHT.

I think that Asobo has a vision and a plan for where THEY want MSFS to go.  I think that it's a coherent strategy.  I support it.

I think that Avsim users, for the most part, have 1 or 2 issues that they can't stop picking the scab about.  Some of these issues are serious ones, and when they rise to the level of personnel aggravation, perhaps it's time to remember it's just a GAME and step away for a while.

Joe Alferio

 

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by Joe Alferio

41 minutes ago, Tom Wright said:

So if they gave it a Windows 95 inspired UI, with drab grey windows full of command buttons and combo boxes, would that make it less 'game' more 'sim'? 🤔

A true sim starts from the command line in the OS. Then we can discuss about the UI.

1 hour ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

OK let us be honest here.

Back when I still flew real life aircraft .. I did it as a game.  It was not a job, or a practical means of travel (light aircraft are one of the most impractical means of travel known to man, fly away for the weekend and it rains and your leaving the aircraft and taking a bus home or skipping work)   Real world flying was entirely and only for fun.

I also own a real world motorcycle and I do that entirely for fun. I could make up some sort of fake reason for the expense like it is more economical on fuel than my car but that would be a total lie, I ride for fun, it is a game.

If you  do something for fun, it makes it a game.

 

 

 

Refreshing post. Now, you flew  for fun but you didn’t settle for a bird with broken gyro  and a sputtering engine 😁. 

23 minutes ago, Joe Alferio said:

I've been PLAYING flight sims since at least '95, maybe earlier.  I really can't recall.  I quit totally in 2013.  At that time I was spending a lot of time with FSX and DCS.  It was taking up too much of my time and I just couldn't afford the super computer needed to run either game smoothly.  I didn't completely give up, I saved about $500 a year and when I saw on YouTube the announcement from MS/Asobo about MSFS I spent 4 Grand on a near state of the art gaming computer.  I put as much as possible into the CPU/GPU as I could and I spent less on monitor and peripherals.  

I'm EXTREMELY satisfied with MSFS and my decisions regarding a gaming rig.

Bottom line, IMHO, Asobo has exactly the same problem that the AVSIM community has, and they are diametrically opposed.  

I was NOT part of the pre-release Beta, but from what I read here and other places, it was rather contentious.

The problems that existed back then still exist, only they are WAY worse now.

Asobo doesn't trust the Beta testers.  They never did.  Asobo thinks the beta testers are a bunch of whiny, entitiled old men.  Asobo is RIGHT.

The beta testers, (i.e. Avsim users), don't trust Asobo.  They never did.  They haven't trusted anyone associated with MS since Bruce Artwick.  The beta testers think that Asobo is a bunch of uppity, Frenchified gamers, and being a gamer is one step above pond scum.  The beta testers (Avsim) are RIGHT.

I think that Asobo has a vision and a plan for where THEY want MSFS to go.  I think that it's a coherent strategy.  I support it.

I think that Avsim users, for the most part, have 1 or 2 issues that they can't stop picking the scab about.  Some if these issues are serious ones, and when they rise to the level of personnel aggravation, perhaps it's time to remember it's just a GAME and step away for a while.

Joe Alferio

 

I can remember in the days of FS9 and before , that the beta testers would complain that microsoft didn't listen to their complaints. Looks like in over a decade,nothing has changed.

I toured the Factory for CAE Flight Sims in Montreal, a couple of times when I was working up there, and I can remember that they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on just the data that the sim used to make the 767 they were simulating feel to the pilot exactly like the real aircraft. The data was provided by Boeing, and was recorded on their test flights. They even had several sets of data, for different aircraft, since eah aircraft has a slightly different feel due to the differences in rigging, according to the pilots, so they tried to pick a data set that was close to an average of the sets they had. That was necessary, because the pilots would train only on the sim rather than the real aircraft for both costs and safety. They go from flying the sim to having one check ride with a check pilot after the sim training, with passengers in the cabin. 

When  the sim was delivered to the airline training center, and I flew one for about 5 hours in the Delta Center in Atlanta, the FAA would send an inspector to give the sim a "check ride" before it would be authorized by the FAA to use for training. The check Pilot that invited me to the training center told me that if the sim was not exactly like the real aircraft, what it was then was a "20 million dollar Nintendo game as far as the airline was concerned."  At the time, about 15 years ago, if it was a full motion sim, just the hydraulics that controlled the motion of the sim, cost almost $2,000,000. The total sim back then ran around $20,000,000+  . Today, they are probably much more. 

Now people are complaining that a sim that cost $59 is not 100% realistic, and it's missing all the approaches to their local grass strip, or the A pillar has a spot of dirt on it.  . LOL

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by Bobsk8

Asobo has listen to the community more than any flight sim in the past. Yet it's never enough because they didn't get "the thing" they wanted.  They have prioritize new functionality and issue based on community voting feedback. So instead of grinding you teeth, on the official MSFS forum and go vote. 

I take it no one is flying MSFS then? Seem to be writing essays on here instead haha

8 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I take it no one is flying MSFS then? Seem to be writing essays on here instead haha

C'mon is fun reading all that 🤣

It is apparent in my eyes that both MSFT and Asobo reek of arrogance and the mindset of too big to fail where MSFS is concerned.  I spent my hard earned money to buy a full featured pc based flight simulator/game whatever.  They use smoke and mirrors with their roadmap to placate us into thinking they will deliver the goods, but in reality, they haven't lived up to the hype they blew up our hind ends prior to release.  They have only proven they can stream Bing data to the simulator in real time; otherwise, it's the same ole pig with different lipstick and an obvious lack of "sense of urgency" on their part or maybe they bit off more than they can chew, but again they believe they're too big to fail.  If you think they give a rip about this community, you're in for a rude awakening.  Additionally, if you really think MSFT is going to bankroll this project for 8.5 more years whilst Asobo continues to break things with every release...well, I have some ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell ya.  It's all about the money train and when the track runs out, where will MSFS be?  I hope I am proven wrong, but with each release comes only aesthetical feature enhancements and not much other improvements to the nuts and bolts.  It wouldn't surprise me once the Xbox title is released, the pc based version will be dropped like a hot tater because the money will be on the console.  As for me and my yoke, I'll keep letting this title dazzle me with the lack of anything but visuals and the other half on a tried and true platform sans the lipstick.

I'm old and grumpy, and I must vent every so often and this seemed like as good a time and place as any.

Relax everyone!  It's only a game!  (I couldn't resist)

LouP

58 minutes ago, SmokeDiddy said:

 As for me and my yoke, I'll keep letting this title dazzle me with the lack of anything but visuals and the other half on a tried and true platform sans the lipstick.

Oink Oink I smell Pork