7 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Anybody telling me that I whine goes straight to the Ignore User trash box. Bye.

 

fascinating.  It seems to me you insult people with back handed insults on a regular basis and that get's you upset?

you'll probably never see this though as you've already put me on Ignore Im sure.

Edited March 28, 20215 yr by sightseer

3 hours ago, KevyKevTPA said:

That article may as well have been written in Mandarin for all I could understand of it lol...   

It doesn't help that they ported this from the downloaded help file that comes with the SDK, and the LaTeX equations don't work, so it's basically unreadable.

They even made a big deal about how the SDK documentation was moving to a website, but apparently no one ever clicked through the pages and scrolled down to realize it's unreadable.

I replied to a thread that had community manager participation on the MSFS forum pointing this out, to no avail.

Maybe someone with closer ties and working on the SDK could mention it and get the equations fixed.

Quote

Of course, you don't have to take my word for it! I feel the proof will be in the pudding over the next year or so.

I hope so.  I know the WT folks have been at the pointy end of the spear on fixing a lot of things since the very beginning, but to me Sim Update 3 was a huge disappointment and I'm getting exhausted with waiting for the promised content and improvements, which are constantly pushed back in time (based on many interactions I have observed, this is likely because the full scope isn't really understood when the initial promises are made).

14 minutes ago, sightseer said:

fascinating.  It seems to me you insult people with back handed insults on a regular basis and that get's you upset?

you'll probably never see this though as you've already put me on Ignore Im sure.

Nope, I read your posts with interest, sorry Dave I generally like what you say 😄. True ! 

And I try hard not focus on people but on what they say. 

Edited March 28, 20215 yr by Dominique_K

4 hours ago, mrueedi said:

You are aware that Microsoft has published several autopilot/flight simulation apps for free as open source?

ArduSoar: an Open-Source Thermalling Controller for Resource-Constrained Autopilots - Microsoft Research

GitHub - microsoft/Frigatebird: AI for autonomous soaring

Home - AirSim (microsoft.github.io)

Can you tell me, how their wallet was the reason to work on these projects?

For some reason (under investigation) my previous answer disappeared. 

Yes, I can tell you, but I won't, because I am sure that you - and anyone else - can figure it by yourself. If you really want.

I am also curious to know how your answer connects to what I wrote, but never mind.

Greetings

A.

9 hours ago, mrueedi said:

That not clear at all. This page is screaming the opposite:

Flight Model Physics (flightsimulator.com)

Why would they move around the pressure center in the flight model, if they would not have serious simmer in mind? Tell me!

Has it crossed your mind, that they could aim for both user groups? Serious simmers and the xbox crowd? Have you thought, that they could have multiple focus areas at the same time? In software development you easily can have multiple focus areas. Their last big topic was VR, the next one is XBox/DX12. All while they were deeply engaged in dozens of other topics.

Can you point mew to a page where the Latex is well interpreted? None of my browsers can show the equations, which is strange, since I use Jupyter all the time and it shows Latex beautifully.

Thank you

Andrea

 

1 hour ago, ADamiani said:

I am also curious to know how your answer connects to what I wrote, but never mind.

Open source is the opposite of commercially driven interests. And MS has embraced open source very openly in the recent years: VS Code, .NET, Github and also the aviation related tools that I mentioned.

So no, it is not only their wallet, that is driving the course of that company.

 

1 hour ago, ADamiani said:

None of my browsers can show the equations

Same issue here. But I have published the same page on my server some time ago, and there it works:

https://flightzoomer.com/downloads/msfs-sdk/0.7/03-Content_Configuration/SimObjects/00-Aircraft/Flight_Model.html

11 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

Same issue here. But I have published the same page on my server some time ago, and there it works:

https://flightzoomer.com/downloads/msfs-sdk/0.7/03-Content_Configuration/SimObjects/00-Aircraft/Flight_Model.html

Thank you, I was finally able to study it. As someone already pointed out, there is nothing to write home about: it is a well known framework. Under the algorithmic point of view, which is my field, there is not much I can comment on: they use a simple trapezoid integration but do not elaborate on the approximations they introduce w.r.t. the problems at hand (some differential systems are particularly sensitive to approximations, others are not).

What I find interesting at a first glance is that they are trying to model stalls in a dynamic way, which is a very good idea, especially when you think of the clunky simulation we had in FSX (and P3D)

Also very interesting is the attempt at simulating the effects of an airflow from a surface to another, including shadows, propwash and so on. It is experimental and they say it needs more work but the idea is good, I think this is not present in X-Plane, as I discussed this very problem years ago in an XP forum.

I would really like to go more in depth of the machine learning normalization step someone was referring to; is it possible to find some deeper reference?

Andrea

47 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

 

Open source is the opposite of commercially driven interests. And MS has embraced open source very openly in the recent years: VS Code, .NET, Github and also the aviation related tools that I mentioned.

So no, it is not only their wallet, that is driving the course of that company.

Do we really need to discuss how the strategies of a big (VERY big) company are ALWAYS money-oriented?

In a big company every dollar you spend must produce profit. Otherways the CEO quickly fills his/her carton boxes and goes home.

Yes, also the open-source strategies must repay themselves. This would take us too far from the main topic, but exactly the three free products that you mention (I use all of them) are strategical in the Microsoft Brand positioning policy. They are a good investment.

I love C#, but I cannot forget how the availability of C# for free meant the end of Borland Delphi (put Delphi as your first language in your CV and see how many companies will hire you).

VSCode means the death of Atom (I know that some believe it is a case of suicide, but nevertheless).

Github was acquired by Microsoft for 7.5B $ (https://news.microsoft.com/announcement/microsoft-acquires-github/) to be number one in free source control platforms (yes I know, Natella said that they strengthen their commitment to developer freedom, openness and innovation).

Nobody pays 7,500,000,000$ just to make developers happy.

And I think there is nothing wrong in it: I just find amusing that sometimes they want to appear different from what they are: money-making machines.

A.

Edited March 28, 20215 yr by ADamiani
To make it clearer

9 minutes ago, ADamiani said:

 

 

Edited March 28, 20215 yr by ADamiani
Double post

10 hours ago, ADamiani said:

And I think there is nothing wrong in it: I just find amusing that sometimes they want to appear different from what they are: money-making machines.

Money making machines has a negative spin, which is unfair and not equally warranted for all companies.

If optimizing revenue would really be the only priority, these open source projects would not exist. For MS there are other priorities too. Applying the brand positioning policy you mention, they were sure able to improve their reputation but only at the cost of lost revenue. And while a good reputation to some degree pays back, nobody is able to ever tell, how much the better reputation really contributed to their bottom line financially. Not even whether the net contribution was negative or positive. Thats what I meant, when I said, they are not only driven by their wallet.

There are tech companies, which show not nearly the openness and dedication to open source as MS (e.g. Apple, Autodesk and many others).

 

Edited March 29, 20215 yr by mrueedi
added sentence

15 hours ago, MattNischan said:

This just couldn't be further from the truth

Apologies as some of my tongue in cheek sarcasm was misinterpreted. I believe that the ultimate goal is to provide a SIM for the simmers, however I also believe that they are wanting to remove the stigma of complexity that prevents many from entertaining this genre. 

By showcasing their technologies, and lowering the entry barrier (gamepad support on mobile device), it will bring in new people who hopefully may graduate to more complexity in peripherals, system management etc. 

 

1 hour ago, OneOfMany said:

I believe that the ultimate goal is to provide a SIM for the simmers, however I also believe that they are wanting to remove the stigma of complexity that prevents many from entertaining this genre. 

By showcasing their technologies, and lowering the entry barrier (gamepad support on mobile device), it will bring in new people who hopefully may graduate to more complexity in peripherals, system management etc. 

 

People throw around terms like "serious simmer", "hardcore simmer", "complexity", as if these terms mean anything.

There is nothing serious, complex, or hardcore about playing a game where you push pixel planes around with a cheap joystick. Give a 12 year old a copy of MSFS 2020, and she'll figure it out in a couple of hours.

I mean, folks press 250 buttons on an expensive "study level" airplane, hit the autopilot 400 feet AGL, engage the second autopilot for a CATIII landing and think they've given "Sully" a run for his money.

Here is my idea of a hardcore simulator: you start with one plane, the C152, have to take ground school, flying lessons, and get your ppl. Then you can graduate to the next level.

I could probably count the number of simmers who would buy this simulator with the fingers on one hand, and I'll probably still have digits left over.

Edited March 29, 20215 yr by Ricardo41

16 hours ago, MattNischan said:

  proof will be in the pudding over the next year or so.

-Matt

That the Asobo folks  are passionate and dedicated, I have never had a doubt about. No reasonable people on this forum has said otherwise.  What we discussed was the overall goal and priorities given by Microsoft which are muddier as seen from the outside.

Anyway, yes we need to see the pudding Matt  'cause the hype made us hungry. There was a time at release where people were saying wait 6 months and you'll see, recently people were saying  wait a year after the release and you'll see, now you say, over the next year which means 18 months after release and you'll see. A big pudding in 18 months is nice but 'Id' rather have small cake servings sooner. I am talking of simulation features.

 I see the confidence in the "title" eroding with a lot of good people. Time for the MFS team maybe to get aware of that and move to bring some cakes.  This is what are these hot threads are about.

16 hours ago, ADamiani said:

a page where the Latex is well interpreted

Well, there are many fetish and s&m pages on the internet which I better don’t share here on avsim 😉

On 3/28/2021 at 4:20 AM, Dominique_K said:

short LOD

It's my opinion (and only opinion, I have nothing to base this own aside from instinct) that the short LOD we're dealing with right now is MS/Asobo using us as beta testers for the XBox version, and once it's "in the can", we'll get our LOD back!  I'm actually OK with the idea of being a beta tester for that, as the revenue from the XBox game players is going to cover many devs to code for PC simmers for the better part of the next decade!  While I personally think anybody who would run MSFS on an XBox is nuts, I also think it was a brilliant business move to make it available there, and they're helping us more than the other way around.

BONUS!!