furloughed 787 pilot

[CockpitHumidifier 0]

Hello All. I am a B787 pilot on furlough due to the covid thing. I always felt that PC flight simulation is too different from a full motion simulator to be used as an effective training device. But then i saw this video on youtube of a VR recording of the Qualitywings 787. It looked very realistic. To make it work, I would need two synchronized VR devices, with doubled input controls (2 mouse pointers??). So one for the captain and one for the FO. And a way for a third guy in the background, the 'instructor,' to set failures and generally control the scenario.  Is that technically possible? What kind of hardware would we looking at? Thanks.

[Chock 17,769]

1 hour ago, CockpitHumidifier said:

Hello All. I am a B787 pilot on furlough due to the covid thing. I always felt that PC flight simulation is too different from a full motion simulator to be used as an effective training device. But then i saw this video on youtube of a VR recording of the Qualitywings 787. It looked very realistic. To make it work, I would need two synchronized VR devices, with doubled input controls (2 mouse pointers??). So one for the captain and one for the FO. And a way for a third guy in the background, the 'instructor,' to set failures and generally control the scenario.  Is that technically possible? What kind of hardware would we looking at? Thanks.

Yes, it is all possible, and even possible remotely if covid restrictions are being adhered to.

To use a computer gaming term you would use a 'multiplayer session' with your simulator whereby everyone would be looking at the same thing, allowing three people to essentially 'be in' the simulated aeroplane. So first up you need a simulator for that, and a suitable aeroplane too of course, and to choose the best one...

The Quality Wings Boeing 787 can be bought in versions for either Microsoft's Flight Simulator X (FSX), or Lockheed Martin's Prepar3D (P3D). Both FSX and P3D use the same Microsoft Enterprise Simulation Platform (ESP) 3D engine, however, the FSX version dates from 2006 originally, although it was updated somewhat in 2014 with a Steam Edition, however, it is a 32 Bit program and in this regard it is 'frozen in time' as far as development goes, being limited to how much VAS memory the program can utilise. The Quality Wings Boeing 787 was one of the last major airliners developed for the 32 Bit FSX, and mindful of how much of a strain it would place on that 32 Bit architecture of FSX, its developer added a VAS monitor to the FSX version's Primary Flight Display so you can keep an eye on things if it is going to run out of memory. I will assume you would like to avoid that possibility, so...

P3D (in essentially being a very souped up 64 Bit version of FSX) on the other hand has been continuously in development by Lockheed Martin for several years and is now on version 5. Unlike FSX, which was, and is, basically an entertainment product, P3D is specifically aimed at being used for training. This means it is more expensive, but it is more capable too. The biggest advantage of this is that it is now a much more sophisticated and capable simulator which is a 64 Bit program, which means it does not suffer the memory limitations that the 32 Bit FSX is stuck with. So of the two platforms which may use the Quality Wings 787, you will definitely want to use P3D and not FSX.

So, what you would need, is three copies of either the Professional or Student version of P3D (which version and what you pay for them will depend on exact usage you intend, see their licensing for further info). Then you'll need three PCs capable of running this with either internet connection or a wired/wirless LAN connection if they are local to one another. Plus three copies of the Quality Wings P3D version of their 787 (they may discount things if you are buying three copies), Two VR headsets (assuming you wanted to use VR), some hardware controllers (yokes, rudder pedals, a dual throttle, or two throttle if both trainees are remote from one another), some headsets with boom microphones to enable an ATC simulation, possibly by the instructor, and something along the lines of this to marry it all together:

Of course you don't have to go that overboard if you don't want to. There are many pilots who use things such as the QW 787 and the FSL A320 for training purposes simply by using their mouse, a regular PC and monitor and a simply joystick and throttle, because you can still effectively learn the location and flows when doing it like that. Because of this, you may wish to place your preferred solution somewhere between what I listed above, and a more prosaic choice of just a few PCs over an internet connection such as Skype in contact with an instructor, which for the most part would probably serve just as well.

Modern computers are amazing and connection capabilities are impressive, but sod's law is alive and well too, and I've done a fair bit of training over the internet with students, teaching complex things such as digital special effects and movie editing etc. I can tell you from experience that the K.I.S.S. principle (keep it simple, stupid) goes a long way with things like that, so consider streamlining things as much as you can to avoid potential problems.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Chock

[jon b 2,041]

Sorry to hear of your furlough. I was in a similar position for 8 months last year after they shut down the 747 fleet and I was then moved onto the 787.

I can’t add to chock’s excellent reply , but just a few thoughts.

I used the quality wings 787 for  familiarisation and to keep my hand in at flying during while I was grounded , it was a big help. 
You’ve got the right idea going for VR , it makes a massive difference and you really do feel like you are flying the real thing.

The QW is rather limited though in the failures you  can pre program, and it doesn’t have non-normal ECLs so you’re going to have to use a paper QRH for drills , which doesn’t really work in VR.

There are cheap programs you can get to display PDFs inside the VR environment so you could use a PFD QRH inside VR but it’s still a little cumbersome. As the QW 787 doesn’t have a failures menu you’d have to simulate failures by turning systems off manually, it does a good job at bringing up the correct EICAS messages.

Trying to set up a full two crew operation in VR and a third instructor position may prove difficult and rather expensive in this current economic climate. To my knowledge you would need two separate VR computers set up and linked using what’s called a shared cockpit, you couldn’t have 2 VR headsets running on just 1 computer, at least at an acceptable frame rate for the flight sim.

I recently did a refresher session  for a friend of mine off the 747 who is now sadly out of work but was going to revalidate his licence as he was applying for a 747 freighter job.

I put him in the VR cockpit in the PMDG 747and was able to work as both his PM and instructor giving him vectors and failures just by sat watching what he was seeing in VR through the monitor screen. I could run his flaps and gear as he called for it, and read out from the paper QRH while he did the drills inside VR.

Again there are programs which allow you to control the QW 787’s overhead and or the FMC from a separate iPad which maybe a useful and cheap way of simultaneously interacting with the aircraft while someone else is flying it from inside VR.

PC simulation nowadays is a fantastic home training resource, I’ve been doing it as a hobby for many years, and many real pilots still frown at it, but now with VR the realism is breathtaking. I don’t know in which part of the world you are but the P3D world can look a bit cartoonish in its native out of the box form, it’s worth investing in some decent regional scenery from orbx and also some airport scenery to prevent the  realism being destroyed.

Sat in the QW787 flight deck at FL350 looking out of those big windows over decent scenery really does look and feel like the real thing.

You can spend time on your own flying the QW787 in VR to keep your hand in, there a program called fs2crew which adds on to the 787 and is a voice activated virtual PM. You call gear down flap 20 for example and the virtual PM does it for you, it adds to the realism when on your own.

The QW 787 is a sort of upper mid range product, by QW’s own definition it doesn’t complete with the fuller more expensive products available such as the PMDG aircraft which have full systems Simulation  and Complex failure menus. It has limitations that will soon become apparent compared to the real aircraft, it’ll do IANs for example, but only if it’s in the right mood, and pressing TOGA may not always do anything at all. The HUD is good to use in VR though. 
 

Despite it’s limitations, as it’s not aimed at being a training product I really love the QW 787 and it’s been a great help to me getting used to the real 787.

I wish you well and hopefully you’ll be back in the air soon, these are terrible times for us all but especially for those in our profession.

Jon

Edited March 31, 2021 by jon b

[CockpitHumidifier 0]

Hello Chock, hello Jon,

thank you both for your excellent replies. There's a lot of information there that i will need to look into. None of these things come cheap. Then again, an officially approved 787 simulator + TRI/TRE costs around 1000 €/hr. If I find a collaegue who will share the cost of the three hours required to revalidate the rating, that's still around 1500 € each. As time goes by without any exposure to the real airplane, the checkride becomes more challenging. So it would be worthwile (and hopefully good fun too) to set something up on my home PC if only to reduce the risk of failure. I think it would make sense to expand it gradually, like start with Prepar3D and QW787, and some basic controls. I will probably have to get a new PC as well but that thing is almost 15 years old anyway. Then add the VR. Next i could try to showcase and convince some collaegues to do the same. That would open it up to multi-crew training. Again thanks very much. 

[MarkJHarris 128]

Also on furlough here. I'm pretty lucky in that I'm a 737-800 jockey. i use P3D, NGXu and FS2Crew to give me the Flap Operator. PMDG are a lot better in terms of programmed failures and stuff. I also invested in control loaded Brunner yoke and pedals. Gives me a good quad workout on V1 cuts. for flows and QRH familiarity it's a useful tool. For actually poling about, it's quite limited. IMHO.

You're a bit more limited with the 787. But a mate on the keyboard while you're on a VR headset is all you need. Take it in turns and as you tend to use automatics far more than me, a mouse and simple joystick just to rotate is all you need.