Thankful I'm in the winter of my life...

[dmwalker 604]

I think the only people who will want to visit Mars will be scientists and eccentric billionaires and I think they would want to return to Earth after the two year cycle.. If I had to choose between a world of snow-capped mountains, forests, the sound of waves on a warm sandy beach, etc., and a lifeless, rubble-strewn landscape, I would choose the former.

Edited April 10, 2021 by dmwalker

[hs118 707]

Dr Joseph Tainter on quantifying and predicting technological innovation.

Joseph Tainter | Sustainability: the fundamental question - YouTube

 

[birdguy 3,943]

54 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

most likely we'll have earth like cities rotating to establish gravity and be entirely self sufficient.

Since I was a pre-teen the outdoors has been a great part of my life.  Backpacking into wilderness areas AWAY from the big earthlike cities where I had to make a living.  And pheasant and duck hunting and fly fishing for trout.  And recreational flying in a Luscombe on floats or a Cherokee.  I would need much more than an orbiting city.

Noel

[overspeed3 410]

A round-trip to Mars will not happen with human astronauts any time soon -  Perhaps not even in this century:

In just today's dollars it would probably cost tens of billions.  It would require 2 to 3 years to land there, and then to return - and multiple stages of rockets and shuttles to carry men/women, equipment, and supplies to last that long - probably want to take along a golf cart or two as well.  Transporting enough water and oxygen is one tough nut in itself.  Then there's the danger in just a successful landing. Plus other hazards like radiation, and 0 gravity effects on the body. plus routine medical problems and emergencies.  Then there's always Murphy's Law to consider. 

But wait:  Highly intelligent, mobile, and dexterous robots standing on two legs will certainly make it to Mars long before humans ever do. (Right now they can do back flips, and walk across an eight-inch plank) .They can certainly may carry out a successful mission as well as us - do all the necessary scientific research, including loading rocks and soil samples into a shuttle bound for Earth.  The really good news: They do not have to make the round-trip back... 

[martin-w 3,235]

7 hours ago, birdguy said:

I would want more than a 'tolerable' existence.

Noel

 

What you want isn't relevant though. 🙂 If you were an engineer or scientist that had dreamt of doing research on Mars his whole life, then you would be quite happy with a "tolerable experience". And if you were one of the remaining survivors of an asteroid impact that had wiped out the snow topped mountains you love and polluted the turquoise seas you love and rendered the planet uninhabitable, then you would be quite happy with a "tolerable experience". And as technology progresses, that tolerable experience becomes a pleasant experience. 

[Reader 2,021]

7 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Yes, we are fortunate that the U.S. govt. executed Operation Warp Speed and got those vaccines developed and manufactured at the fastest rate in history.  Our friends in Italy were flabbergasted and impressed that we have already administered over 100 million doses of the Covid vaccine. 

Not all of the rest of the world is in awe and there are many other perspectives on the world as viewed from outside the USA instead of from inside outwards.

[martin-w 3,235]

2 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

A round-trip to Mars will not happen with human astronauts any time soon -  Perhaps not even in this century:

 

Nonsense! Have you not watched the news? have you not seen the threads on this very forum regarding SpaceX Starship prototypes, who's purpose is to get us to Mars. NASA intend to do so by 2030 and SpaceX plan to do so by 2026. 

 

2 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

Highly intelligent, mobile, and dexterous robots standing on two legs will certainly make it to Mars long before humans ever do. (Right now they can do back flips, and walk across an eight-inch plank) .They can certainly may carry out a successful mission as well as us - do all the necessary scientific research, including loading rocks and soil samples into a shuttle bound for Earth.  The really good news: They do not have to make the round-trip back... 

 

We already have robotic rovers on Mars. If you mean something akin the the Boston Dynamics robots, then no, any geologist/scientist will tell you that boots on the ground are superior. We are a VERY long way away from having such advanced machines that they can be as effective as a human being on site. 

In addition, human beings are explorers, risk takers, its what we do, and its that characteristic that has propelled us to the level of achievement we have today. We didn't achieve such great things by sitting on our bums and saying "nah, don't like the conditions there, send a machine, I'm staying at home in my nice warm house". We push the envelope, attempt new and difficult things, we go where man hasn't gone before... and we must do that or our species will surely stagnate and be gone before you know it. 

And of course, perfecting the ability to live and work on Mars, or other bodies in the solar system is essential because one day a big rock WILL come and wipe out life on this planet. Its not a matter of if, its a matter of when! 

 

2 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

 and multiple stages of rockets and shuttles to carry men/women, equipment, and supplies to last that long 

 

Seriously, pay attention to what going on. 🙂 

https://www.spacex.com/human-spaceflight/mars/

Edited April 10, 2021 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,235]

5 hours ago, birdguy said:

Since I was a pre-teen the outdoors has been a great part of my life.  Backpacking into wilderness areas AWAY from the big earthlike cities where I had to make a living.  And pheasant and duck hunting and fly fishing for trout.  And recreational flying in a Luscombe on floats or a Cherokee.  I would need much more than an orbiting city.

Noel

 

Noel... again, its not relevant to you. Nobody is going to make it compulsory for you to live in a space station or on Mars. But if an existential crisis threatens this world, threatens to render it uninhabitable, we need somewhere else to live if our species is to survive. And of course, it will be engineers and scientists that CHOSE to live in space or on Mars, because they want to. 

[jon b 2,047]

Hmm, ...implanted chips,  bionics ,  robots,  social inequalities,  people living in space on giant rotating space stations , climate change, and cure for all diseases ... this thread has the makings of a great film.

But it does sound rather familiar...😂

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by jon b

[Twenty6 693]

13 hours ago, martin-w said:

that when perfected

I won't be around if this actually happens. All I can hope is that my descendants (and yours) survive thru the beta testing period.

[dmwalker 604]

15 hours ago, birdguy said:

My personal opinion is that instead of looking outward to save a fraction of humanity we should look inward and solve our personal behavior/relationship/problems and come to grips with global warming and cleaning up the environment...both land surfaces and oceans and save us all. 

It's not about a privileged few escaping all these problems; it's about having an insurance policy which ensures the future of the human species in the event of a global catastrophe. On the bright side, I see that the Apophis asteroid is no longer classified as an impact risk.

[dmwalker 604]

21 hours ago, birdguy said:

You would just have a professional chip implanted in your brain.

How about a chip which prevents epileptic seizures. It would be like a pacemaker for the brain.

[martin-w 3,235]

1 hour ago, Twenty6 said:

I won't be around if this actually happens. All I can hope is that my descendants (and yours) survive thru the beta testing period.

 

Nobody is shipping the entire human race to Mars next week and not at all if we don't have to. The "testing" phase will be short term, over the next few decades, and as I said, will be scientists and engineers. Our descendants will be way past the beta phase by the time they get an opportunity to visit Mar.  

[martin-w 3,235]

39 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

How about a chip which prevents epileptic seizures. It would be like a pacemaker for the brain.

 

it does amuse me how, when new tech arrives, so many people are suddenly against advancement in technology... while simultaneously and hypocritically making full use of modern technology in their lives and to voice their objections. They seem to forget that all technology was once cutting edge and almost all technology has been initially met with negativity and cynicism. They of course will be the first to opt for am implant that enables them to walk if their legs get messed up. 

I recall that when the steam engine was first invented there were objections and claims that faster than 30 mph would make your ear drums burst. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by martin-w

[ILSFREAK 56]

4 hours ago, martin-w said:

But if an existential crisis threatens this world, threatens to render it uninhabitable, we need somewhere else to live if our species is to survive.

Mm If we cant make it here on this beautifull place with all its resources (for free) cant see we will make it any other place

Note I know this was ment in a broad perspective Martin