Upcoming X-Plane 12

[Janov 2,383]

This thread is kinda funny for me - because 4 of the main protagonists are on my ignore list...I only catch the rare glimpse of their usual nonesense when Goran quotes them 😂.

Goran is right, their fervor probably comes from the nagging realization that MSFS is not the answer to those who seek a realistic flight simulator, and their enjoyment of MSFS is always tarnished by the lingering feeling that they aren´t flying like a real pilot would - pretty clouds and being able to read the inscription on the front of their local supermarket notwithstanding.

[jarmstro 2,402]

34 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I'm going out on a very long limb here, but I think I know why they hate X-Plane so much.

It's a computer simulation. Why would I 'hate' it? It's done me no harm that I know of? I criticise MSFS where criticism is warranted as well. But I could not name the head of Microsoft or Asobo and will never place them on a pedestal. 
 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by jarmstro

[GoranM 3,764]

3 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

It's a computer simulation.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

3 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Why would I 'hate' it?

I have no idea.

3 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

It's done me no harm that I know of?

Nothing to do with "harm".  It's to do with serious competition...for some people.  Some people just want X-Plane to go away.

[jarmstro 2,402]

Just now, GoranM said:

Nothing to do with "harm".  It's to do with serious competition...for some people.  Some people just want X-Plane to go away.

Well I don't! I'm too invested. But I do want LR to get its act together and do not think the endless worship is helpful or productive.

[GoranM 3,764]

1 minute ago, jarmstro said:

do not think the endless worship is helpful or productive.

I don't know where you get this from.  How people react to LR, as individuals, is their business.  If they have an altar or a shrine dedicated to Austin, that's entirely their business.  Who are you, me or anyone else to tell these people what to do in the privacy of their own home.  And if they want to post about their admiration of LR or Austin, or Ben, or whoever, what's the harm??  I don't understand why you can't just shrug it off and move on.  I used to be one of the biggest PMDG word not allowed's you could come across.  If someone told me to quit adoring PMDG, I would tell them to chill out and not concern themselves with what I'm doing.

Is the endless worship helpful or productive?  I guess not.  Does it affect LR in any way?  Of course not.  Does it matter if someone endlessly worships LR or any of their staff?  Again...of course not.  I really don't see the big deal.  If X-Plane brings someone enjoyment, let them enjoy it.  And let them show adoration for the creators.  As long as it doesn't hurt you, or anyone else, there is literally no harm in it.  

8 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

But I do want LR to get its act together

Do you even follow the dev blogs??  A team, comprising of 1 to 3 coders have implemented Vulkan AND Metal into X-Plane.  DX12, with all Microsofts funding, and Asobo, with their 200+ staff, STILL haven't implemented DX12.  That, alone, tells me LR is getting their act together.  Clouds???!!!  Please.  I can just imagine the LR meeting.  
Coder:  "Uhhhh, Austin, I think we should  have pretty clouds instead of implementing Vulkan into X-Plane."

Austin: "Are you being serious right now?"

Coder: "Absolutely.  We need clouds because Flybaby at AVSIM thinks clouds are more important than anything else."

Austin: "Pack your things.  Get out of my company!"

I say this with all sincerity...follow the X-Plane dev blogs.  Ben Supnik is constantly posting ideas and things that have been, and are being worked on.  You may rethink your stance on your statement "I want LR to get its act together"

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

I think it's silly we can't have a normal conversation about what we (as XP11 users) would like to see in XP12 without having from one side aggressive MSFS word not allowed and from the other aggressive XP word not allowed doing equally silly claims, soon implying Austin cured cancer and made other out-of-this-world achievements. Fanboyism is bad.

XP is our sim, and i think flight model wise there is no competition. But that is exactly why they need to focus a bit more on the visuals because those, for me, matters equally. And i think we are seeing lots of examples of other simulators advancing in such a department, while XP (at least for now) has nothing to show. We know something is coming for XP12, i just wish we would have something more specific to see at this point..

[GoranM 3,764]

45 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I criticise MSFS where criticism is warranted as well.

I haven't seen a single criticism you have posted.  By all means, link me, and I will admit I'm wrong.  I mean, you even praised the Bredock3D 737, purely based on the price.

46 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

But I could not name the head of Microsoft or Asobo

That's because the head of Microsoft and Asobo don't interact with their customers and don't have their email published around the community to get support.  Do you know who the head of Apple used to be before he passed away?  I was a Windows user until January last year, but I knew who the head of Apple was for 20 years prior.  Do you know who created Microsoft back in the 80's?  That's roughly 40 years ago.  I'll bet you a burger and fries you do.

[mjrhealth 820]

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

These three individuals may be the best in their field. Or not. LR needs new blood and investment and less praise for its Dear Leader.

Waiting for you to create a realistic fligtsim from scratch in your own. No one idolises him, im just glad he ignored all the rants from the complainers. At least some of us have a life. Do many sad people here

[jarmstro 2,402]

26 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Do you even follow the dev blogs??  A team, comprising of 1 to 3 coders have implemented Vulkan AND Metal into X-Plane.  DX12, with all Microsofts funding, and Asobo, with their 200+ staff, STILL haven't implemented DX12.

That's possibly because MSFS seems to be fairly efficient and runs well for most people with DX11. DX12 is not a necessity. XP isn't so desperately needed Vulkan and even with it is not as fast as MSFS with equivalent settings and effects. From what I have read DX12 is not about performance but the ability to add special effects such as ray tracing.

[GoranM 3,764]

7 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

That's possibly because MSFS seems to be fairly efficient and runs well for most people with DX11.

I've seen videos and forum posts.  "Efficient" is at the opposite end of the spectrum of adjectives I would use for MSFS.  

7 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

DX12 is not a necessity. 

You're in the minority with that opinion.  I've lost count of "When will they implement DX12???"

7 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

XP isn't so desperately needed Vulkan and even with it is not as fast as MSFS with equivalent settings and effects.

Rubbish.  I have 3 installs of X-Plane on my PC.  1 is a clean install.  No plugins.  1 is dedicated to beta's.  And the 3rd is dedicated to bloatware.  Vanilla X-Plane gives me, in most cases (depending on the add on being tested), double the performance in Vulkan and Metal (I have a Windows PC and a Macbook Pro) than OpenGL.  In the minority of cases, I get 30% increase in Vulkan and Metal.  In my bloatware installation, slightly higher fps or similar FPS.  This is down to plugins not being compatible with Vulkan OR simply too many CPU cycle hungry plugins.

Edited April 21, 2021 by GoranM

[yidahoo 365]

6 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

That's possibly because MSFS seems to be fairly efficient and runs well for most people with DX11. DX12 is not a necessity. XP isn't so desperately needed Vulkan and even with it is not as fast as MSFS with equivalent settings and effects. From what I have read DX12 is not about performance but the ability to add special effects such as ray tracing.

I have become a big fan of P3D since it went to DX12. There clearly is a very significant improvement in performance and smoothness, something very much missing in MSFS in its current incarnation. That a new Windows based sim would be brought to the table and not even be optimised for DX12 shows clearly that a lot of the underlying code is still ESP based. 

[jarmstro 2,402]

4 minutes ago, GoranM said:

haven't seen a single criticism you have posted.  By all means, link me, and I will admit I'm wrong.  I mean, you even praised the Bredock3D 737, purely based on the price.

Well here's a few for you to be getting on with😀

- The update process is utterly intolerable. Clunky and fraught with error.

- The servers, on which the sim depends, are unreliable and frequently go down.

- New bugs are introduced with every patch. 
 

- There's still at lot to do with regard to Weather, the flight model, the sdk and much much more.

 

[jarmstro 2,402]

3 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Rubbish.  I have 3 installs of X-Plane on my PC.  1 is a clean install.  No plugins.  1 is dedicated to beta's.  And the 3rd is dedicated to bloatware.  Vanilla X-Plane gives me, in most cases (depending on the add on being tested), double the performance in Vulkan and Metal (I have a Windows PC and a Macbook Pro) than OpenGL.  In the minority of cases, I get 30% increase in Vulkan and Metal.  In my bloatware installation, slightly higher fps or similar FPS.  This is down to plugins not being compatible with Vulkan OR simply too many CPU cycle hungry plugins.

No, no. I agree that Vulkan made a big difference. That wasn't what I meant at all. If I run Default MSFS with all settings on high I get great performance and have volumetric clouds and plenty of ai traffic. If I run XP with all settings on high with a volumetric cloud addon, orthos  and a dozen ai planes it's a slideshow basically. AI planes, reflections and shadows absolutely hammer XP for some reason.

[mSparks 2,086]

7 hours ago, GoranM said:

You're placing a ton of importance on clouds.

Perhaps that's because there is nothing else left to actually complain about....

The flight sim equivalent of "1st world problems"

7 hours ago, GoranM said:

I've already stated it, MSFS clouds look better than X-Plane clouds.

Please no.

DCS clouds now look better than X-Plane clouds. I can agree with that.

MSFS rain is pretty cool. I can agree with that.

MSFS clouds are just yet another thing MSFS doesn't even do as well as FSX, they are absolutely awful (even potentially dangerous for rw pilots)

Edited April 21, 2021 by mSparks

[mjrhealth 820]

5 hours ago, GoranM said:

I'm going out on a very long limb here, but I think I know why they hate X-Plane so much.  X-Plane is the only threat to MSFS.  It has been a constant thorn in Microsofts side, for the better part of 30 years.  And there will always be a select few who will try to "extinguish the X-Plane flame just so the MS flame appears brighter".

But there is no changing the fact that MS shut down the flight sim section, on more than 1 occasion due to dwindling profits.  While X-Plane has gotten more and more popular, with a very slight dip in sales during August last year.  But then saw a bump in sales in the following months due to all the new people introduced to flight sims.  So THANK YOU, MICROSOFT AND ASOBO!

Of course, X-Plane doesn't have the 2 MILLION PILOTS that MSFS has, right @FlyBaby...but, as with my Ford vs Ferrari example, that doesn't make MSFS the better choice.  Just a different choice.

Im afraid as it will never change, ms is given them the painted lady, and we know what men are like with pretty women, how much they have forgotten about ms$, its all about money im waiting for the ,gotcha,