who said scenery add-ons would become obsolete?

[Borgillios 8]

After seeing the default airports in my area I realized that I would be put off everytime I flew there. That is one of the reasons I started building airports in western Sweden. Looking at custom built airport buildings is an important part to build immersion. I have also bought a few orbx addons of the same reason. No aircraft yet but looking forward to the Piper Warrior IV. My airports can be found here https://flightsim.to/file/11291/esmq-kalmar-oland-airport

[GSalden 4,656]

Imho addon scenery will never be obsolete,

Known cities are known often because of their known buildings / objects.

MSFS has already stated shortly after release that they will release free (world) packages but also payware packages.

If I approach a known city I want to see the cityscape of that city. 
So for me True Earth type Addons covering a country with known buildings/objects will be very welcome.

What I see happening now is separate cities that are put on the market. If you want that for a complete country you will pay a lot.

So MSFS will bring a lot of $ to the developers.....

[Noel 4,492]

55 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Imho addon scenery will never be obsolete

Never is a super long time!  MSFS debuted in 2020.  Tune in in 2030 and we can probably see the quality of satellite data, AI, photogrammetry getting that much better such that accuracy/fidelity will go up a whole bunch of notches yet again, making custom created scenery less relavent yet again.  Plus  every city I know looks pretty much exactly like it does in the real world, though of course that's not a statement that they are exact at all, but is more a testament to the current LOD in cities rendered using their various tricks, and the fact except for the cities we live in, very likely we would not know the difference between the real world and the rendered world in terms of finer details.  Here's a little nothing fly over Annecy FR:  it's far ahead of 'good enough' already, and so much of the world is already at this level in MSFS:

Fussen, Bavaria:

Will anyone have trouble knowing they're flying over DC?

I think the main market will be for small, local airports and in terms of numbers of copies of say my home airport in Chico CA will be almost nothing, so these will come from freeware very likely unless they're well know small destinations.  But Asobo has already addressed many of these already.  So not too sure about the future of scenery for MSFS long term.

[Tierborn 188]

12 hours ago, 767lover said:

I can remember talk prior to MSFS release dooming companies like ORBX because there would no longer be a market for scenery add-ons.

it seems that such add-ons are even more important now. The great default scenery of MSFS makes you crave for even more perfection. Besides, the recent photogrammetry releases in word updates have been so disappointing (in my view), the glaring exception being Japan, i prefer AI-generated cities with hand-made landmarks and custom-made lighting integrated within it. Or would the best solution be photogrammetry with such custom-made landmarks overlaid, as is currently being done by Asobo to some degree. 

Wonder what you think. 

Thanks!

 

no one

[bean_sprout 1,201]

I'll be using the scenery editor to create my own stuff.

bs

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

13 hours ago, 767lover said:

I can remember talk prior to MSFS release dooming companies like ORBX because there would no longer be a market for scenery add-ons.

it seems that such add-ons are even more important now. The great default scenery of MSFS makes you crave for even more perfection. Besides, the recent photogrammetry releases in word updates have been so disappointing (in my view), the glaring exception being Japan, i prefer AI-generated cities with hand-made landmarks and custom-made lighting integrated within it. Or would the best solution be photogrammetry with such custom-made landmarks overlaid, as is currently being done by Asobo to some degree. 

Wonder what you think. 

Thanks!

 

OMG

LOL!

[Tuskin38 6,468]

I never once thought paid scenery would be obsolete.

[Noel 4,492]

Well, when you can deboard your Citation Longitude at KMRY, walk thru the terminal to the parking lot and hop in your Tesla Roadster and hit Laguna Seca Raceway, then drive over to Pebble Beach for 18 holes with Lexi Thompson, then drive over to KSJC and fly to your next destination with its unique set of missions as it were....  Now you have a multidimensional universe that can accomodate as much content creation as can be imagined.  Hang around long enough and you will see this happen at some level, especially in VR.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Noel

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

22 minutes ago, Noel said:

Well, when you can deboard your Citation Longitude at KMRY, walk thru the terminal to the parking lot and hop in your Tesla Roadster and hit Laguna Seca Raceway, then drive over to Pebble Beach for 18 holes with Lexi Thompson, then drive over to KSJC and fly to your next destination with its unique set of missions as it were....  Now you have a multidimensional universe that can accomodate as much content creation as can be imagined.  Hang around long enough and you will see this happen at some level, especially in VR.

 

Well driveable cars are available just not a Tesla so far (the only problem is driving around cities does not look like Google street view yet) .

 

https://flightsim.to/file/12374/drivable-car-mitsubishi-pajero

 

 

[F737MAX 5,579]

Add-ons are never going to become obsolete, here's why:

1. The standard of the base sim is 'good enough' for now. Lots of people will accept the default airports, POIs, clouds textures, sky textures, weather engine, mesh, AI traffic. At some point though (in fact, it has already started), these elements will be bettered and people will want these newer and better elements to improve their sim experience.
    
2. Technology is going to keep improving. Therefore what is considered 'cutting edge' for a flight sim now, is going to be outdated in 2-3 years' time. People will want better and newer tech incorporated to improve their sim experience.
    
3. Real world changes. As I.R.L. airports are upgraded and cities expanded, what is correct in 2020 is not in 2023. We've already had complaints regarding Bing aerial imagery being out of date. Airports like KORD, KSLC, EGLC, EGCC are undergoing significant upgrades which change how an airport looks or how its runways are aligned.

While interest in MSFS is maintained, there will be a lot of freeware options.
That means the payware developers will have to raise their standards in order to get us to buy their offerings. This is great for us consumers as we will get better products (in theory).
Due to the extra interest MSFS has alreadt generated, those developers who treat their customers with respect *and* can raise their game will get far more sales than they have been used to over the past decade.

[ryanbatc 12,833]

12 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

The big difference between P3D and MSFS 2020 is that in MSFS 2020 even the default airstrips look great. 

There are tons of airports with flat buildings.  Orbx, along with other scenery devs will have a place in this sim.

[abrams_tank 7,395]

The default airports are passable.  For example, the default CYVR generated by Asobo was fine at release as it was way better than the default airports for FSX.

However, the handcrafted CYVR by FSimStudios or FSDreamTeam are an entirely new world compared to the default CYVR.  It’s like day and night.  There is no comparison.  The handcrafted version of CYVR is like 30x better than the default CYVR.

Unfortunately, satellite and photogrammetry data in MSFS only go to a certain resolution at the moment.  This means smaller signs and other details below that resolution will not look good.  And this is where handcrafted airports and scenery by 3rd party developers have a huge advantage.

Maybe one day, we will have satellite and photogrammetry resolution down to an inch but we are not there yet.  And until we are, there will always be room for 3rd party scenery developers.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

The detailed 3D photogrammetry in Bing and Google maps is often from specialised mapping aerial photography taken in adjoining high altitude survey runs by a specialised aircraft rather than an actual satellite and hence the quality depends a lot on the area and what height the aerial survey was done.  You certainly CAN get 3D stereoscopic imagery with detail down around 30-50cm from sequential photos from the better low earth orbit satellites but detailed photogrammetry of cities in Bing or Google is more likely to be generated from aerial surveys rather than satellite.

Though all aerial photography is called "satellite" these days whether actually taken from a satellite or a specialised mapping survey aircraft.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[GSalden 4,656]

Here 2 vids : landing at Nice in P3D with FranceVFR PACA 1 (older vid) and MSFS (recorded yesterday).

You can judge for yourself : do Addons enhance the scenery in MSFS or is default good enough ? 

(The landing and taxiing is not perfect as I recorded with my IPhone in one hand and controlled ac with the other)

P3D v4

MSFS:

 

[Ricardo41 5,948]

16 hours ago, DylanM said:

You do know that Asobo contract Orbx directly for internal work...

Perhaps the future of addons isn't b2c but b2b.