Switching to X-Plane 11? Good for helicopters?

[Pascal_LSGC 298]

13 hours ago, Chock said:

I know you the review you are talking about on Steam, I read that too, and what he actually said that there were aspects of it which were not as realistic as the real thing. But frankly, I think he was expecting a bit too much from a 20 quid chopper sim which was still in beta at the time he wrote that. If he had a bit more realistic expectations, it would be a more balanced opinion.

And you said earlier:

Quote

As you can see from the review, it is only 20 quid and runs very well on even a modest computer and is certainly more realistic than anything XPlane, MSFS, P3D or FSX can offer and even gives DCS a run for its money

So, on one side, it beats every established sim out there, and on the other side, we have to lower our expectations... Which one is it ? 🙂

Pascal

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Pascal_LSGC

[Chock 17,769]

Just now, Pascal_LSGC said:

And you said earlier:

Which one is it ? 🙂

Pascal

 

I think it is pretty good for the money. It's a decent chopper simulator which even in its early access form, is worth the (modest) price of entry if you like helicopters.

[jfri 42]

13 hours ago, Chock said:

I know you the review you are talking about on Steam, I read that too, and what he actually said that there were aspects of it which were not as realistic as the real thing. But frankly, I think he was expecting a bit too much from a 20 quid chopper sim which was still in beta at the time he wrote that. If he had a bit more realistic expectations, it would be a more balanced opinion.

So in what way is it more realistic than what we can get in DCS XP11 P3D ?

[Chock 17,769]

1 minute ago, jfri said:

So in what way is it more realistic than what we can get in DCS XP11 P3D ?

It's a dedicated chopper sim. This allows it to focus on one thing and do it well.

[jfri 42]

22 minutes ago, Chock said:

It's a dedicated chopper sim. This allows it to focus on one thing and do it well.

And in what way is it done better ? In what way does its helicopter behave more realistic ?

[jcomm 5,926]

Hmmm... Looks like STEAM now has at least 3 different civil helicopter simulator games ( ? )

Helicopter Simulator on Steam (steampowered.com)

Police Helicopter Simulator on Steam (steampowered.com)

Helicopter Simulator VR 2021 - Rescue Missions on Steam (steampowered.com)

Edited May 18, 2021 by jcomm

[Janov 2,383]

I think Choplifter also was a dedicated helicopter sim? 😁

[jcomm 5,926]

1 hour ago, Janov said:

I think Choplifter also was a dedicated helicopter sim? 😁

That is totally new to me - I wasn't using computers like the ATARI, AMIGA, ELAN, ZX 81... by that time, because I was too busy with card-based machines :-)

[FlyBaby 659]

3 hours ago, jcomm said:

Helicopter Simulator VR 2021 - Rescue Missions on Steam (steampowered.com)

@mSparks have you seen / tried this???

[Paraffin 2,197]

On 5/18/2021 at 3:44 AM, jfri said:

So in what way is it more realistic than what we can get in DCS XP11 P3D ?

People look for different things in a sim. Personally, I like flying the larger helicopters with more advanced systems like force trim release on the cyclic, 3 or 4 axis autopilots, "beep trim," auto hover, and other features you get on something like a medium twin engine helicopter. So I'm not interested in in this particular standalone sim.

The light trainers like R22's are fun to fool around with, but for longer flights in something like FSEconomy it's good to have the more advanced features. Right now, at least until the situation improves over with the "other" new sim, that means flying XP11 for civilian helicopters like the Bell 412 and DCS for the military stuff.

[mSparks 2,086]

On 5/18/2021 at 10:11 PM, FlyBaby said:

@mSparks have you seen / tried this???

Seen the review videos - saw your message earlier, but wanted to give it some thought. I'll try and deal with both you and Paraffin.

6 hours ago, Paraffin said:

People look for different things in a sim.

Oppfff, where to start.....

Kinda, yes, no, not really.

I think the better way of describing this is that people come into sim with very different expectations of what's important to them, but those expectations are likely very different to what ends up being important to them (and I do include myself in that category).

For example, people come into any sim with the assumption that the really important stuff is all solid, stable and realistic - we're all been around long enough now to know that is never the case, and promises that things are solid, stable and realistic are not worth the e-ink they were written in.

People also come into sim with quite different "wants" from the sim, but I don't think anyone can really judge that for themselves without the experience needed to judge; I bit like trying to decide if you like Caviar without ever having tried it. - three years ago I thought the tubers were mental .... now I have the 744 constantly trying to take over my life (and I love it).

7 hours ago, Paraffin said:

Right now, at least until the situation improves over with the "other" new sim, that means flying XP11 for civilian helicopters like the Bell 412 and DCS for the military stuff.

Absolutely none of them are "fully fit for purpose" - at least not out of the box, last week I finally kicked off a project to get my controls certified, that's going to be a long and painful process, but XP is the one and only sim I am aware of that has actually had:

https://www.x-plane.com/kb/x-plane-11-10-release-notes/

Quote

More tuning of the propwash (and thus hover power requirement) and vortex ring state and effective translational lift based on momentum conservation and actual helicopter performance data. Definitely more accuracy there now, based on a lot of testing against very precise Bell-206 performance data in ground effect, out of ground affect, and at various flight speeds as well, and also in various decent rates including settling with power and power-off vortex-ring-state.

They f'd it between then and ~11.40, then things under the hood got really solid when Austin was overhauling the flight model - getting a lot of input from highly experienced pilots - including test pilots.

7 hours ago, Paraffin said:

The light trainers like R22's are fun to fool around with, but for longer flights in something like FSEconomy it's good to have the more advanced features.

A lot of this really depends on how well placed you are to judge those advanced features, a "perfect" R22 is a lot more serious a bird than a "fun" B412 missing even a single vital failure mode needed to do any kind of realistic flight.

I don't think its possible to underestimate just how much economic value has been ploughed into X-Plane, the  support alone from thousands of aviators at the tops of their fields on ~6 figure salaries just isn't something even "unlimited budget Microsoft" will ever be able to afford to buy.

Putting all that aside, simply the best thing to happen to flightsim is VR, If Helos are your thing, the first thing you want is a VR headset, after that each sim with VR support offers something different and unique.

 

[Paraffin 2,197]

On 5/23/2021 at 2:52 AM, mSparks said:

People also come into sim with quite different "wants" from the sim, but I don't think anyone can really judge that for themselves without the experience needed to judge; I bit like trying to decide if you like Caviar without ever having tried it.

I'm not sure where you're going with that, but while I've never piloted a helicopter in real life, I had a career as an editorial and advertising photographer and spent a ton of my clients' money hiring helicopters for photo shoots. Always with the door off, sometimes hanging my butt out in a monkey harness to get a decent angle.

These were mostly Jet Rangers, the occasional Hughes 500, and a few odd ones like one flight in a Bell 47 when nothing else was available, and a flight in a Huey in Costa Rica courtesy of the park service. I had to learn what a helicopter could and couldn't do, and I have a pretty good appreciation for what it looks like and feels like to fly in a real life helicopter flown by a competent pilot. 

That doesn't make me an expert in helicopter sims, but at least I can talk from a bit of experience. 
 

Quote

A lot of this really depends on how well placed you are to judge those advanced features, a "perfect" R22 is a lot more serious a bird than a "fun" B412 missing even a single vital failure mode needed to do any kind of realistic flig

I think you missed why I referred to FSEconomy. Those assignments often involve flight distances of 200 miles or more. That is not something I want to hand fly, so I prefer a helicopter model with force trim release and a decent autopilot. 

 

[mSparks 2,086]

2 hours ago, Paraffin said:

I think you missed why I referred to FSEconomy.

This might be a good example of what I mean by "wants and judge"

Was FSEconomy something you wanted and

2 hours ago, Paraffin said:

a helicopter model with force trim release and a decent autopilot.

something you were looking for when you jumped into X-Plane, or were they things you found you wanted after the fact?

2 hours ago, Paraffin said:

Those assignments often involve flight distances of 200 miles or more.

For my international training flight in the real R44, I did LYBE to Trebinje, with a refuel stop in Sarajevo ... with no GPS (because it was a cross country training flight), or autopilot (because... it doesn't have one).

What we want out of the sim is really very different - but what we look for?

2 hours ago, Paraffin said:

That doesn't make me an expert in helicopter sims, but at least I can talk from a bit of experience.

Like I said - i included myself in the category. I wasn't trying to belittle anyone's experience or wants and desires.

Just saying that from what I've seen, what people think they want from a flight sim (e.g. nice scenery), and what they find they really want from a flight sim (e.g. a decent autopilot) tend to be very different before vs after actually using the sim.