Cosford Flight Sim Show 2021 - how confident are you?

[Chock 17,769]

Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have to say that is extremely disappointing news. The average death rate from COVID in the UK in the last 7 days has been less than 10. By mid-June all restrictions in England are due to be lifted. Everyone over 18 in the UK, the rest of Europe and the US will have been vaccinated.  Where is the risk?

Whilst it is true that restrictions are due to be lifted, we've seen several changes in the status of the UK lockdown over the preceding year, with promises of a reduction then changing to more stringent rulings, so we know that whilst there is a prospect of things easing, we can't say for certain that this is what will actually transpire, and when that's the case, the expense of organising a show, booking a venue, paying for things and such is an important consideration. We know there are problems in other countries with new strains of the virus being detected, so this is something of an unknown quantity in terms of a potential further threat to things and the possibility of plans going awry. 

It's worth bearing in mind too that whilst there may have been 'only' ten or so recorded deaths in the UK in the past week or so, that's still ten people dead, so in regards to going to see some toy aeroplane software possibly altering such statistics, I'd rather there not be a show than someone have to deal with getting ill or having a relative die because I wanted to look at toy aeroplanes. I really like going to the Cosford show and I'm of course disappointed that I cannot, but at the risk of someone possibly dying, then it's just not that important to me, nor should it be to anyone else. It's easy to be blasé about there 'only being ten deaths' when you are not the one affected by it, but I'm sure it is a big deal to the people who are now arranging a funeral for a loved one.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

@Chock, we clearly have very different views about this and I’m not going to engage in a debate about COVID because those topics are frowned on by AvSim.

I appreciate deposits have to be paid up front and it’s probably that which has caused them to rethink things. As for crowds, football stadiums are probably going to be full by October.

[SteveW 1,792]

'Probably' is not 'definitely'. Football can go on without a crowd but the FS Show cannot.

[Chock 17,769]

Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Chock, we clearly have very different views about this and I’m not going to engage in a debate about COVID because those topics are frowned on by AvSim.

I appreciate deposits have to be paid up front and it’s probably that which has caused them to rethink things. As for crowds, football stadiums are probably going to be full by October.

Yeah, they probably are with any luck, but that's not the same as definitely. Footie events can still gain revenue from TV screenings of matches with no crowds should another lockdown come, and the amount of money footie clubs have from the rights to TV appearances means they're hardly on the breadline when it comes to such things. Different for smaller clubs of course, but as a general rule these can make money too even under such circumstances. The margins for flight sim software developers are a lot tighter to the point where booking the stuff for a show appearance which might then be cancelled is much more of a financial risk. Nobody is going to buy a Sky subscription to view a flight sim show.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

2 minutes ago, SteveW said:

'Probably' is not 'definitely'. Football can go on without a crowd but the FS Show cannot.

Football clubs can’t exist on thin air. Revenue is desperately needed.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

1 minute ago, Chock said:

Different for smaller clubs of course, but as a general rule these can make money too even under such circumstances

How? The amount of debt at smaller clubs must be eye-watering. The govt won’t pay wages for ever.

[SteveW 1,792]

Whether football clubs can survive is not the argument Ray. There's no point in Cosford going ahead unless it is definite.

[Chock 17,769]

Well, that's up to the fans to sort out. It's the same as me complaining about if I made no money from playing a gig because nobody came to see me so they didn't buy a ticket. Nobody owes me or these clubs a living. If something isn't viable, then it isn't viable.

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

12 minutes ago, SteveW said:

Whether football clubs can survive is not the argument Ray. There's no point in Cosford going ahead unless it is definite.

It could be made definite by insisting on proof of vaccination for attendees and wearing a mask. Anyway, I can’t add any more to this. Let’s hope 2022 takes place.

[Dereksmalls 36]

7 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It could be made definite by insisting on proof of vaccination for attendees and wearing a mask. Anyway, I can’t add any more to this. Let’s hope 2022 takes place.

Attendees are not the issue. It is exhibitors and the need to get them signed up in the Feb-April period in order to guarantee a show in October. The UK may well be in a good place vis-a-vis hospitalisations, infections and so forth, but that is not to say everywhere is in the same position and not all exhibitors come from the UK. Today's Guardian has a headline that reads: "EU to delay adding UK to travel ‘white list’ due to Covid variant". That may change, but it doesn't help in providing certainty. 
Very few exhibitors are prepared to put down deposits and prepare their logistics, given the situation is still quite fluid. 
Professional football clubs, on the other hand, have the benefit of a very sophisticated infrastructure; they have been operational (without fans) during lockdowns and they also have fairly significant amounts of cash (and the pressure of expectation that goes with it) from the broadcasters. If Cosford was being sponsored by Sky or Netflix it might well be going ahead. 

[jon b 2,041]

Most disappointing from a personal level but given the explanation of the logistics. Understandable.

 I’m glad to read the cancellation was simply down to the fluid situation and the problems that causes to getting commitments from exhibitors which is fair enough.

I do think society needs to start coming out of hiding and returning to normal now rather than being scared of their own shadows.

I’ve been working in many crowded airports in hotspot locations recently including Pakistan,India and the US without incident, so an aircraft hanger in the Midlands wouldn’t have  worried  me, but never mind I’ll try next year. I might even be able to buy a honeycomb bravo while I’m there by then.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

@Dereksmalls, good points well put across regarding Cosford. Regarding professional football clubs whilst that may apply to the Premier League many clubs in the lower tiers are in desperate need of cash so their plight cannot carry on forever.

Good points from @jon b too. I've stopped cleansing my hands and the trolley when I go food shopping now. You either trust the vaccine or you don't. I continue to wear a mask in shops because it's the law but I'm trying to get my life back to normal as quickly as possible. Visits to flight sim friends are long overdue.

[Christopher Low 5,332]

I will be 55 by the time that Cosford 2022 arrives, so I really hope that the world has got this PITA virus under control by then.

[Chock 17,769]

16 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've stopped cleansing my hands and the trolley when I go food shopping now. You either trust the vaccine or you don't.

That is very irresponsible and inconsiderate behaviour. Having had the vaccine won't stop you from spreading things via touch, and that could affect other people who have not had the vaccine. You should still be using the cleanser for the potential protective benefit of other people. It's not as if it is a major inconvenience to take 30 seconds to cleanse your hands.

Worth bearing in mind too that even disregarding this virus, with the amount of filthy people I see who go to the toilet and then don't bother washing their hands, anything you can do to stop picking stuff up from lazy scumbags like that is worth doing. 🤣

Edited May 21, 2021 by Chock

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

4 minutes ago, Chock said:

That is very irresponsible and inconsiderate behaviour. Having had the vaccine won't stop you from spreading things via touch, and that could affect other people who have not had the vaccine. You should still be using the cleanser for the potential protective benefit of other people. It's not as if it is a major inconvenience to take 30 seconds to cleanse your hands.

How can I spread something I haven't got? I haven't been out of the house for a week before I went shopping today. When Tesco start wiping down the credit card payment machine between customers that's when I'll revert to using the sanitisers. I've used common sense for the past 14 months and survived so I don't need any advice on how to conduct myself thank you.