Can rudder and aileron trim be applied to all aircraft?

[carbonbasedlifeform 179]

I would guess not, but it's a pain to fly a 152 long distances without some rudder trim, etc. Is there a way to do this?

[Chock 17,769]

The 152 does have a rudder trim tab, but it's a ground-adjustable one, i.e. it's a thin metal tab on the tail which can be bent by hand prior to boarding the aeroplane. So it emulates what a fully adjustable rudder tab can do at a certain setting, but obviously since you set it and forget it, this means it will only be trimming the aeroplane to fly perfectly straight at one specific airspeed, and it's not much use to you in a flight sim unless you replicate having bent it a bit on the ground by altering the simulated version's config file.

Many aeroplanes are in fact designed to fly 'hands-off' at their most commonly used cruise speed by having an asymmetrically shaped rudder which imparts the correct amount of corrective force at a specific speed. The asymmetric rudder is very obvious when you look at early Messerschmitt bf109 variants for example, because it wasn't until the very late variants that the 109 actually got properly useful rudder tabs. So you can try flying at different speeds and altitudes to see if you can achieve this designed-in feature of most aeroplanes, although obviously it has its limitations in only working at specific speeds and altitudes. On the subject of the 109 and for the curious, most WW2 fighters were designed to be fairly hands off at about 250 mph.

You have to know what you are doing when adjusting those ground adjustable tabs on real aeroplanes, but you could emulate this in a flight sim by tweaking the aircraft's config file, although again you have to know what you are doing with that too. If you don't want to do that with the config file, there are some other things you can try, the most obvious one of which is to deliberately imbalance the aeroplane to counter the tendency for it to turn, either with passenger weight distribution, or the fuel payload, i.e. keeping it slightly imbalanced to make it go the other way to its turning tendency, thus cancelling the tendency out, although you could potentially be flying a bit crabwise or with a wing down, which isn't ideal, so that's something to be aware of.

This is not as drastic a technique as it sounds incidentally; there are many aeroplanes which are often trimmed out by using fuel in different locations, among these is the Boeing 747, which can carry fuel in the rear stabiliser, although when Boeing resigned the aeroplane to create the 747-8, they initially had to lock out the tail tank because it was found to be causing flutter when it was carrying fuel, so you have to also be aware that there can sometimes be issues with that sort of thing.

So in short, if you don't want to simulate bending the rudder tab by tweaking the config file, then try getting the fuel in the wing tanks slightly imbalanced.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Chock

[sd_flyer 6,041]

1 hour ago, carbonbasedlifeform said:

I would guess not, but it's a pain to fly a 152 long distances without some rudder trim, etc. Is there a way to do this?

No all airplanes in real life have rudder and ailerons trim. Like in your example 152 doesn’t . So you will better off with Bonanza in MSFS

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

I have never really found lack of rudder trim a big issue in real life light aircraft or for that matter in game, as the force in both cases to keep the ball centred with one foot slightly forward is minimal.   

I can see it being an issue with a twist stick though. With a twist stick it could get very annoying.  Possibly you can adjust trim in aircraft without it with an addon ? No idea.

It is also worth noting that people often misunderstand trim and tabs and what they are doing.  One example is Cessna style elevator trim that works through aerobatic force on a tab that moves the elevator. These only work when you have some airflow over the elevator and do nothing until you have sufficient airflow over the elevator (as opposed to trim that tilts the entire tail plane).

Another example is the P149 which has aileron trim tabs but you could search all day for a wheel in the cockpit to adjust them and not find one, the tabs on the p149 move automatically with aileron deflection and their purpose is not trim, it is to reduce the stick force needed during high speed aerobatics, they are not used for trimming at all. You cannot manually adjust them.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[Fielder 3,671]

If you have a game controller with an axis lever or knob that has a center detent, you can use that for a rudder trim on every plane in MSFS. And then every plane can be trimed exactly the same way.

I use a Desktop Aviator trim panel which has such an axis lever. So does a Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle (it is a lever that rotates and is labeled INCR DECR, has a nice center detent.

To use, just assign that axis as a rudder (not a rudder trim). You now have two rudders, the one on the floor (or the twist on the stick) is your normal rudder and you set it up as normal. Then you go ahead and assign your 2nd rudder at reduced sensitivity and travel in MSFS controller setting window.

=> They will not interfere with each other in any way. <== 

Your 2nd rudder now acts just like a rudder trim.

Anyway, I never use the keyboard keys for rudder trim. I never look around the cockpit for a rudder trim wheel or tab. I just use that lever on my Desktop Aviator trim panel. Every flight, every plane, every time I flew, since day 1 of MSFS. All planes trim out to direction straight ahead, exactly the same easy way.

For a cheap solution, maybe what you want is a controller (stick, throttle quadrant, whatever) that has a center detent wheel or lever that can be assigned to an axis. There must inexpensive controllers like that out there somewhere.

I fly with a Warthog HOTAS, but if I used a yoke and a quadrant instead, then I would go buy the TM throttle by itself without the stick. It is full of useful goodies and doodads to make any yoke setup way more intuitive and ergonomic than using keys on a desktop keyboard. 

[carbonbasedlifeform 179]

15 hours ago, Chock said:

Many aeroplanes are in fact designed to fly 'hands-off' at their most commonly used cruise speed by

How do you find that speed for default planes?

[Chock 17,769]

49 minutes ago, carbonbasedlifeform said:

How do you find that speed for default planes?

I would presume you could do so by simply trial and error around the recommended cruise speed setting, or it would possibly be in the manual for the real thing if the tab was on its factory setting.