Updated PA 44 Seminole, how is it.

[Bobsk8 12,682]

6 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

It is basically a T-Tail Cherokee with an extra engine 😄

They are not spectacular performers.  Single engine performance is almost non - existent above a few thousand feet. Not quite in the "arrive at the crash site more slowly" territory but pretty close.

If you look at the chart below - your climb rate with an engine out if your at 2000' with an OAT of 20 degrees is going to be less than 100 fpm .

 

They seem to be mainly used as trainers for people wanting a multi engine endorsement. This is presumably where the main long term interest in this aircraft will come from - people training in them.

That's me. I have been training on aircraft since I got my PPL 45 years ago.  

[Sigwolf 222]

12 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Googling it, says about $500 hour.

I know I'm old and haven't flown in a while, but sheesh.  I used to instruct in a Seminole that went for around $110/hr, wet.  Looking around now, though, that price is way too high, at least in the US.  $500 an hour would be for a chartered Seminole.  I found rates around $225-250 for rental, or low $300's for dual with instructor.  Still pretty expensive, but at least it's not 5x what I was used to seeing.  😄

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

According to Google the operating cost is $450 hour, but that includes fuel. Maybe it's wrong.

Based on 450 annual owner-operated hours and $5.00-per-gallon fuel cost, the PIPER Seminole PA44 has total variable costs of $100,800.00, total fixed costs of $98,245.00, and an annual budget of $199,045.00. This breaks down to $442.32 per hour.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[Sigwolf 222]

Well, I guess there must be a lot of charitable flight rental companies around if they are willing to rent their aircraft out at such a loss.  🤣

Flights Inc. - Flight Training and Aircraft Rental (flights-inc.com)

Aircraft Rental - AFA Flying Services

 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Right, it's probably incorrect, just noting it.

Edit
For anyone that happened to buy a lot of Bitcoin (hence have a lot of extra money), here is something interesting for about 50-100k.

https://www.frasca.com/rtd-configurator/
 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[sd_flyer 6,040]

28 minutes ago, Sigwolf said:

Well, I guess there must be a lot of charitable flight rental companies around if they are willing to rent their aircraft out at such a loss.  🤣

Flights Inc. - Flight Training and Aircraft Rental (flights-inc.com)

Aircraft Rental - AFA Flying Services

 

This more like what I see around !

[hangar 661]

7 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Right, it's probably incorrect, just noting it.

Edit
For anyone that happened to buy a lot of Bitcoin (hence have a lot of extra money), here is something interesting for about 50-100k.

https://www.frasca.com/rtd-configurator/
 

yea, maybe $3,000 worth of hardware for around 85k...sounds like s real steal 🙂

 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

11 hours ago, Sigwolf said:

Well, I guess there must be a lot of charitable flight rental companies around if they are willing to rent their aircraft out at such a loss.  🤣

Flights Inc. - Flight Training and Aircraft Rental (flights-inc.com)

Aircraft Rental - AFA Flying Services

 

Is that a wet price though ?  Fuel would add a bit to that cost per hour.

Also if the aircraft is otherwise sitting unused due to COVID they may be writing off any capital depreciation as a pre-existing loss just to keep some cash flow.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[Sigwolf 222]

12 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Is that a wet price though ?  Fuel would add a bit to that cost per hour.

Also if the aircraft is otherwise sitting unused due to COVID they may be writing off any capital depreciation as a pre-existing loss just to keep some cash flow.

Yes, those links show wet prices.  I just randomly picked two to post, there are plenty more at various places around the country in the same range.  That seems to be the current going rate, not an individual company writing something off.

[Bobsk8 12,682]

14 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Is that a wet price though ?  Fuel would add a bit to that cost per hour.

Also if the aircraft is otherwise sitting unused due to COVID they may be writing off any capital depreciation as a pre-existing loss just to keep some cash flow.

I had a friend in Florida who owned an FBO there. He told me years ago that in order to make even a small profit, hourly rental rates dry had to be around 0.1% of the selling price of the aircraft. Back then a brand new 152 I rented for around $20 per hour. A new 172 today sells for around $350,000+.  Can't imagine what the rental would be for that aircraft. 

[amahran 47]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:59 AM, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

It is basically a T-Tail Cherokee with an extra engine 😄

They are not spectacular performers.  Single engine performance is almost non - existent above a few thousand feet. Not quite in the "arrive at the crash site more slowly" territory but pretty close.

If you look at the chart below - your climb rate with an engine out if your at 2000' with an OAT of 20 degrees is going to be less than 100 fpm .

 

They seem to be mainly used as trainers for people wanting a multi engine endorsement. This is presumably where the main long term interest in this aircraft will come from - people training in them.

You got it. Single engine IFR performance is, well, abysmal to say the least. If your engine is out, you’ll have trouble meeting minimum IFR climb gradients unless you’re flying by yourself with minimum fuel, skipped lunch for a few days, dehydrated for safe measure, etc....

[sd_flyer 6,040]

I remember with full tanks and two people and temperature close to standard I couldn't  bring Seminole higher than  5000 ft (with a fully feathered prop). 

[NightOfDreams 370]

On 5/9/2021 at 1:47 PM, Bobsk8 said:

Tell me about it. I spent hundreds of hours trying to narrow down the CTD problem I had which was continual. Finally I read a post on another forum where someone was having CTDs with the JF Arrow, so I stopped using it, ( and that was all I was flying for the last couple of months,) and haven't had a CTD since, in about 20+ flights. 

I just had the first CTD in several months with the JF Arrow, which I only just started flying recently. The game stopped moving, then sound stopped, then just back to desktop. Very very aggravated right now.

Do you remember which forum you read that in? If this is systemic I want a refund from Just Flight because I have no CTD with other aircraft and I paid $45 for their product.

 

Faulting application name: FlightSimulator.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x6087d3ea
Faulting module name: unknown, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x00000000

Edited May 12, 2021 by NightOfDreams

[Bobsk8 12,682]

1 hour ago, NightOfDreams said:

I just had the first CTD in several months with the JF Arrow, which I only just started flying recently. The game stopped moving, then sound stopped, then just back to desktop. Very very aggravated right now.

Do you remember which forum you read that in? If this is systemic I want a refund from Just Flight because I have no CTD with other aircraft and I paid $45 for their product.

 

Faulting application name: FlightSimulator.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x6087d3ea
Faulting module name: unknown, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x00000000

It was on the MSFS forum. Under 3rd party aircraft I think, but not sure at this point. It may be in the forum on CTDs under Bugs. When I was having CTDs I read just about every forum on the topic, so recalling where I read it is impossible. I wouldn't count on getting a refund for a payware aircraft. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Bobsk8

[NightOfDreams 370]

11 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

It was on the MSFS forum. Under 3rd party aircraft. I wouldn't count on getting a refund for a payware aircraft. 

Thanks. I'll see if it happens again, or if it's something else such as running graphics on Ultra instead of High-End. I really enjoy the Arrow otherwise.