Flight Instructors - Please read

[Guest Peter Wilding]

I need some help and advice on correct flying skills and training that maybe able to help me in my real life flying.Particualrly interested in CFI's and ATPL pilots that have some free time, retired or semi-retired to help me with a new project.contact me on p.wilding@btopenworld.comOut of interest has anyone tried the dual cockpit for teaching yet? Any thoughts how realistic this can be?Peter

[Geofa 108]

I've used it-t works very well. I've also had a "student" while I played atc throwing every curve I could think of on an ils approach.Some great potential here...I'll hopefully catch you on skype-though late where you are...http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[Guest Peter Wilding]

I look forward to that Geof,yeah, I think there is going to be great potential flying on line with a student instructor relatioship.When you get a chance, let me know, and we can fly on line together.

[Guest]

FS (any version, any addon) is only "decent" for IFR training and general area familiarization depending on the senery you have.It can help with procedure but honestly, what you will cover in 200 FS hours you can cover in 20 minutes sitting in the actual plane.

[Guest Peter Wilding]

Are you an instructor? I'm getting different feedback from different people in this respect.Thanks for the comment.Peter

[Geofa 108]

bumphttp://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"It can help with procedure but honestly, what you will cover in 200 FS hours you can cover in 20 minutes sitting in the actual plane."I disagree. You can't equate the avionics knowledge and general flying knowledge imparted by MSFS to 20 minutes sitting in a plane. My CFI did not have to waste time telling me what each instrument did, showing me how to operate a radio, explaining what ATIS is or the differences between ground control, the tower and center. He didn't have to tell me how to control the plane, etc... He didn't have to show me how to adjust for baro. pressure, or how to set the squawk code, or when to take the xponder out of standby. I handled my first flight from takeoff to touchdown and in the air, my CFI did not have to provide any control inputs or assistance. I didn't learn those things through osmosis--MSFS helped. I am not saying that MSFS can teach you how to fly or that you can walk into a plane and fly away, but someone without MSFS or any other sim isn't going to pick up in 20 minutes what they need to know to accomplish what I did on my first flight, not unless they spend an equivalent time and possibly more reading and studying.-John

[Guest faust1200]

My 2 cents. I used to be a flight instructor (CFII and MEI) and I used to fly with a regional airline. The above poster is correct that someone who has been trying to fly the sim seriously will know a lot more about the general operations of aviation etc. However, I think where sims really earn their money is in instrument work. They are a very cost effective way to learn your needle chasing skills. (i.e. holding, intercepting and tracking, ils,vor ,ndb approaches, etc.) Because when you are first starting to learn to do holds for example you definitely need some practice in just knowing what to do, when to do it and how to do it and developing the hand eye coordination etc. If you have never done holds before(or any type of intercepting and tracking) it would be silly to take your first few lessons in a plane unless you have money to burn. This is where I think sims shine - in introductory instrument work and also in practicing to maintain proficiency. You can also mock real-life aircraft checklist items during this time which would enhance your training. Where sims really suck (unless you are talking level c and d sims but still true to some extent) is in imitating the feel of a genuine aircraft. Real yokes are not spring loaded and they do not give you a seat-of-the-pants feel and spacial disorientation etc. Sims do not pull g-force, even full motion. (perhaps a negligible amount) Even when flying in a real plane under the hood it is still nothing like real ifr conditions. (under the hood you still see the outside in your prereferry and whether you know it or not are using that visual info) The first time you experience spacial disorientation in ifr conditions it is quite something. No sim can give you this. There is no substitute for this.So nothing controversial here when I say sims including fsx can be a great supplement when used correctly but are no substitute for real training and flying experience. In fsx, you will have no failures (unless you set them and you will know generally or specifically what will fail) everything will be working perfectly which is usually never the case in any airplane, the ai pilots dont make mistakes and the atc don't make mistakes. In fsx you don't have to worry runway incursions, airspace violations, etc. In fsx you can choose your route of flight and don't have to worry about sids, stars, victor-jet airways, published hold or atc directed hold procedures. Lol, I'm looking at this big wad of text i've spewed and I guess I should stop!Keep the shiny side up!

[delta november 0]

Wellsir; I've been involved in two midair colisions and one near miss whileflying FS9 ....all times on final after being cleared to land by FS ATC. One time AFTER being struck ATC advised the AI aircraft to go around. So is it perfect...not lately. Also had head to head confrontations on the ground with AI planes...and the only way to stop the Mexican Standoff is to taxi around them onthe grass. I finally figured out to avoid being run over on final I have tofly above the normal glideslope and dump a lot of altitude at the lastminute.....that way they fly under ya}( Also, had ATC happily vector me right into the side of a mountain.

[FlyingsCool 3]

Don't forget that the main topic of this conversation is multiplayer flying, where the other person (the instructor) is sitting in the plane with the student, can speak to the student just like they were sitting next to each other, and has full control over every standard gauge in the cockpit in real time (currently can't control gauges like Eaglesoft Avidyne, but most others work), and can cause failures. The only thing that can't be dual controlled is the flight controls (yoke, rudders), though control can be passed between the cockpit occupants. I haven't checked the interface yet, but perhaps you can cause real failures (unlike in real life training where all you can do is turn things off and cover gauges). If not, I'm sure it can be programmed to do so, which is probably what Peter is thinking about.Obviously, sim flying is not a replacement for real life training, but it can be a not insignificant part of the process.I am not a CFI, and I haven't done more than test many of the aspects of what FSX is capable of here, but I am involved in lots of work in this area.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[Geofa 108]

The 4 near collisions I have had in real life happened to me 2x at a class c airport-and two class d airports-all while under control of atc and on ifr flight plans-so it isn't perfect in the real world either! :-) I haven't been vectored into a mountain yet though.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[FlyingsCool 3]

Let us know if that ever does happen! It would be an interesting statistic. :) (but do please try to avoid the actual vector :( )Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[Guest faust1200]

>Wellsir;>> I've been involved in two midair colisions and one near miss>while>flying FS9 ....all times on final after being cleared to land>by FS >ATC. One time AFTER being struck ATC advised the AI aircraft>to go around.>> So is it perfect...not lately.>> Also had head to head confrontations on the ground with AI>planes...>and the only way to stop the Mexican Standoff is to taxi>around them on>the grass.>> I finally figured out to avoid being run over on final I>have to>fly above the normal glideslope and dump a lot of altitude at>the last>minute.....that way they fly under ya}( >> Also, had ATC happily vector me right into the side of a>mountain.Well I would call that a bug and not an ATC mistake. Unless the sim is programmed to make atc mistakes which I doubt. Ive only used fsx of the msfs products.(unless you want to count msfs on my atari 800 in 5th grade ;) ) The atc is far from perfect..very far, but I haven't had a collision with AI or terrain becuase of bad vectors...yet.

[FlyingsCool 3]

You will be - Yoouuu will be Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[Guest DanWalloch]

>The 4 near collisions I have had in real life happened to me>2x at a class c airport-and two class d airports-all while>under control of atc and on ifr flight plans-so it isn't>perfect in the real world either! :-) I haven't been vectored>into a mountain yet though.>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgI've had a few close calls too while under ATC. Had a seneca zip by at about 200ft away, a 172 pass under by 500ft (atc didn't call it until it was already under me) and had a C-130 cut in front of me at about 1/4 mile away.