PMDG is coming to MSFS

[Car147 2,276]

5 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Nope, not going to do that, constructive criticism and comment are the best ways of identifying and improving duff aspects of any simulator.  I don't have MSFS, for my own reasons, but that doesn't mean I want it to fail, or to badmouth it.  What I see is informed and logical reasoning and analysis aimed at trying to get what we all want really, which is good looks, good performance and realistic behaviour.  I want it to be as good as it could possibly be, regardless of whether I own it or not.  And I'd hope that you'd want it to be that way as well, even if you're comfortable with how it is at present.

I m certainly far more confident this sim is going in the right direction, what with a lot of the initial bugs like ctd's etc have now gone, WT coming on board, FBW . The launch of the CRj, the up coming Twotter, and now  PMDG, alot further ahead with todays announcement that anyone could have hoped for. So yes compared to the past sims, this one's only going to get better and better.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Car147

[Gilandred 690]

13 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

I'm fine with what other people likes, I just don't like it when they ask developers to stop supporting older simulators.

I doubt developers care whether forum users ask or not.  If there is money to be made in P3D then it will still get development bucks.  If not, then it won’t.  My gut tells me PMDGs latest 777 upgrade confirmed what Aerosoft has already gone on record telling us regarding sales.

[mpo910 2,112]

4 minutes ago, Car147 said:

I m certainly far more confident this sim is going in the right direction, what with a lot of the initial bugs like ctd's etc have now gone, WT coming on board, FBW . The launch of the CRj, the up coming Twotter, and now  PMDG, alot further ahead with todays announcement that anyone could have hoped for. So yes compared to the past sims, this one's only going to get better and better.

You made a mistake in your first sentence already....you called MSFS a sim......Fake news

Edited May 22, 2021 by mpo910

[Car147 2,276]

1 minute ago, mpo910 said:

You made a mistake I'm your first sentence already....you called MSFS a sim......Fake news

Awww, you upset, poor thing! away play flying minecraft then lol

Edited May 22, 2021 by Car147

[CFIJose 5,485]

3 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Will P3D or X-Plane become FSX? That’s the big question right now.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Even though some still use FSX & FS9, most devs focus on P3D & X-Plane because most simmers who use those sims still buy airports and add-ons.

MSFS will never replace every sim that we use and enjoy.

[ARCO 245]

2 hours ago, w6kd said:

I find no evidence of that behavior in the sim.

With respect, this is absolutely and blatantly false!

Where on earth (literally) did you fly with your sim? I have flown close to 300 hours in two months and a half only on light aircraft, I am presently on a trip around Africa, I experienced turbulences exactly where they were supposed to exist given the winds, the clouds, the temperatures, the terrain (and the SIGMET!).

If MSFS is so bad, why would one of the two best aircraft developers for simulators (whose CEO happens to be a former airline Captain too) risk a statement promising the delivery of their entire line of products within a year? Why is there so much urge to continue spreading negativity?!

[abrams_tank 7,393]

17 minutes ago, DJJose said:

I'd like to see MSFS succeed and I still complain when an update breaks my sim. What's I find befuddling is why so many simmers want to see P3D or XP11 fail? Hard to fathom.

There is a difference between wanting P3D and X-Plane to fail, and predicting that they will fail.  I actually don’t care much whether they fail or not, but I am predicting that they may become obsolete flight sims for 3rd party developers to develop new products on if they don’t up their game and match MSFS.

As I have been to business school before, I used to study a lot of case studies just like MSFS vs P3D/X-Plane.  In fact, MSFS vs P3D/X-Plane makes a pretty good case study.

In my opinion, P3D and X-Plane are in a tough spot right now.  Kind of the same spot Blackberry and Nokia were in when the IPhone was released in 2007. Incremental improvements are not enough for P3D and X-Plane, such as incremental improvements were not enough for Blackberry and Nokia after 2007.  P3D and X-Plane need revolutionary improvement, to catch up to MSFS.  If P3D and X-Plane continue with incremental improvement, MSFS will eventually take over the consumer civilian flight sim market.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

Dang! I've run out of popcorn.🍿

[CFIJose 5,485]

Some of us have spent hours and $$$ on add-ons, only to see our sims broken by updates and this dev's ineptitude.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm using the same MSFS. There so much that needs to be fixed that it's just ludicrous to claim it's ready for a PMDG aircraft.

I'm sorry, but I see this as desperation by PMDG. We better get in the game, just to show we are committed to the platform. We get it!

Edited May 22, 2021 by DJJose

[Noel 4,487]

42 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I think many of us were hoping to increase the size of development teams and producer higher quality more in depth content, not just "stay afloat".  It's unfortunate that many in the user community keep pointing fingers at DLC providers like CaptainSim, PMDG, Aerosoft for not providing features they want when the finger needs to be pointed at MS/Asobo.

The alternative approach that would have increased DLC contributions and kept everyone happy would have been for MS/Asobo to provide a full feature set SDK several months prior to release, we learn the new SDK, we get content ready for Day 1 official release.  I certainly would have enjoyed having a PMDG 737 available to me on August 18th, 2020.  This is the approach that would have made ALL happy (DLC, end users, etc.) in regards to this platform.

For whatever reason, that was not the plan and to be honest I don't really know or understand what that accomplished?  A community in harmony would have been far more beneficial for all.

Cheers, Rob.

Very simply:  there are only so many resources available according to the budget and long term mission MS/A is after.  The 'community' is now evolving to encompass Xbox users perhaps newer to flight simulation than many of the old timers here.   They're clearly on a timeline to sync w/ Xbox hardware as well.   In order to gain maximum new users on Xbox you really must focus on the wow factor above all else.  Having esoteric fidelity to anything traditional flight-sim wise is hardly going to draw in the most newcomers to the hobby--after all, they have already had full access to that in the other sims for decades now.  So they put their limited resources into what matters most right now.   The 'community' you refer to has changed drastically w/ the port to Xbox, so trying to keep the old timers pleased as a first priority simply does not apply.  You and me and the rest here will still enjoy P3D and be part of that ancient community.

[micstatic 4,316]

I agree with @DJJose  still so many issues. The Nokia/blackberry vs iPhone isn’t really that valid. The iPhone at that time was incredible and with far less issues than we see in this new simulator. 

[kaosfere 3,115]

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I don't really understand the drive from users to suggest the SDK is sufficient when they haven't even looked at or used the SDK?  How can you comment on something you have NO experience with?

Hi, Rob.   You may not remember me.   I'm the guy you accused of "denying the obvious" and "painting an alternate reality" when I questioned whether you were seriously trying to make a point about the sim physics by posting an intentionally absurd video of people doing jumbo jet carrier landings.  You may recall that you suggested I "face reality" and come up with solutions and requests for fixing things, as you had.  Which was kinda funny, given that that was about three weeks after Microsoft had made a public announcement that my colleagues and I had signed a contract with them to become first-party development partners.

But that's OK, I'm happy to let bygones be bygones.

Because it seems you still have some particular frustrations regarding the state of the SDK, to the point where you felt the necessity to come into a thread about a highly respected developer releasing a video expressing their current very positive opinion of the development tools, in order to express your own contradictory opinion that even the "basic" things are broken and challenge anyone who shared the more positive perspective to prove their development credentials to you.

Without getting into you-know-what-waving contests, I'm sure you can understand that if folks like PMDG are willing to begin sinking huge development effort into products for MSFS, it's reasonable for people to believe -- whether they're developers or not -- that things are in at least a generally acceptable state.   They don't need to be developers themselves to put stock in the opinions of other developers they trust who have a long and verifiable track record of producing very high quality products.  That's how human beings work.  We can't all be experts on everything.

But no, things are not flawless, of course.   There are certainly still shortcomings.  Some of them it may be possible to do things about.  Others, not.

Jean-Luc of RXP, for one, has done a very good job in these forums of explaining the shortcomings he sees in the current dev tools, and what's keeping him from bringing his products to the sim.  In fact, number of us from WT even sat down with him to talk things over and see if we could at least start a productive discussion about it and maybe open the road to making potential changes to the SDK that would suit his needs.

Now, don't get me wrong -- there are some things that simply are not likely to happen soon, if ever, due to legal restrictions or fundamental design decisions that were made at the start.   And we haven't promised anything to Jean-Luc other than giving him a chunk of our time and giving fair consideration to his thoughts, but we are having an open dialog about how we can work together to make things better.

But the other thing about Jean-Luc that's helpful is that he doesn't belittle the people he disagrees with, and he's mature enough to acknowledge that it's entirely possible both for him to have very particular needs that can't currently be met and for the SDK at the same time to support highly detailed models of complex planes.

I'd like to think that, as a name that some in the community rate highly, you'd be able to do the same.   So I'd like to offer you the opportunity to explain, in as much detail as you'd like, either why you think what PMDG is saying is BS, or what particular needs you have that could possibly be addressed to make things better for you and everyone.

Within, of course, the constraints that we're all given to operate in. 

I understand that you may have given some feedback to Asobo in the past, and that it was potentially misunderstood or misinterpreted.  I don't know, I wasn't involved in that.  But we're not Asobo, so maybe it's worth a second attempt.

Bygones, remember?

--

On edit, I should note that as much as I'd welcome that discussion, a thread about PMDG is probably not the best place for it.  (Though, honestly, I'm not sure you could drag this one back on topic if you tried).

Regardless, the offer is open to you to share your thoughts in an appropriate venue on what might get you to the position where, like Randazzo, you can say "it's pretty good".  Feel free to reach out to me at any time.

Edited May 22, 2021 by kaosfere

[abrams_tank 7,393]

5 minutes ago, micstatic said:

I agree with @DJJose  still so many issues. The Nokia/blackberry vs iPhone isn’t really that valid. The iPhone at that time was incredible and with far less issues than we see in this new simulator. 

Actually, the Blackberry still had some advantages over IPhone back in 2007.  The technological gap between the Blackberry and IPhone was not a 10 year technology gap on the IPhone’s release.

There is arguably a 10 year technology gap between P3D/X-Plane and MSFS in some areas, such as graphics and free satellite/photogrammetry for the entire world.

I don’t know how P3D and X-Plane are going to close this huge technological gap by their next version release.

 

[CFIJose 5,485]

9 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

Bygones, remember?

I'm SO glad that the WT dev team is now working with ASOBO to improve the sim. They are certainly in good hands based on the mods that you and your team have released.

I know that this is old news, so thanks for the reminder.

[micstatic 4,316]

7 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Actually, the Blackberry still had some advantages over IPhone back in 2007.  The technological gap between the Blackberry and IPhone was not a 10 year technology gap on the IPhone’s release.

There is arguably a 10 year technology gap between P3D/X-Plane and MSFS in some areas, such as graphics and free satellite/photogrammetry for the entire world.

I don’t know how P3D and X-Plane are going to close this huge technological gap by their next version release.

 

until MSFS can do things like real and dependable wind/weather.  Better compatibility with home cockpit hardware/software.  Reliable model matching.  So I don't think p3d/xp need to actually close the gap.  Of course my statement is that state of the flight sim universe at the current time.  I also make my statement as a guy who flies airliners 95% of the time.  CRJ and A320 mod aren't bad.  But not nearly as good as what I currently fly and rotate thru in my hangar.  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't get me wrong.  I think their is a decent chance in a few years I'm flying MSFS regularly.  But I also fail to accept that PMDG is so altruistic that they are just so wowed by MSFS they want to share it with all of us.  They realize they can't exactly sell their product anymore in p3d, because everybody (or many) have already bought it.  p3d/xp still have some advantages over MSFS also. And not everybody like photogrammetry once the novelty has worn off.  Up close it looks weird

Edited May 22, 2021 by micstatic