X-Plane Technology Preview One

[GoranM 3,762]

22 minutes ago, rka said:

Lets just say XP takes a year from now for the new weather engine and clouds and another half a year of testing and whatnot (my guess is it will take longer).

The weather engine is done.  XP12 will use Xavion's weather engine.  I'm not sure where you get the 6 months of testing.  LR release beta's for customers to test.  tens of thousands of testers equals very rapid progress on updates.

Your guess is just that.  A guess.  Truth is, even LR don't know how long it will take.  It could take a month.  It could take a year.  Regardless, it's very easy to implement the gfx tech of today into ANY sim or game.  ie.  It's hardly "too late" for anything.  

22 minutes ago, rka said:

Then we're in 2023 and there's still no ortho.

Austin has never liked ortho.  He's made that known.  And there are others who don't like ortho, either.  I'm on of them.  I'm not interested in seeing my local KFC or McDonalds in a flight sim.  I want a flight sim.  Not a scenery sim.  

22 minutes ago, rka said:

Hard to predict a bright future here.

Just an FYI...Austin has been hearing that for about 3 decades.  

22 minutes ago, rka said:

Looks more like a niche position for Linux and Mac flight simmers IMHO.

 

http://dashboard.x-plane.com

Scroll to the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3475kkbjunzfnu4/Screen Shot 2021-06-05 at 10.53.47 pm(4).png?dl=0

In the 2000's, it was more Mac than Windows.  

Edited June 5, 2021 by GoranM

[Murmur 3,941]

17 minutes ago, rka said:

That's exactly what I wanted to say 😄

 

I used the exact same reasoning as you did: "XP is too late to improve its visuals" is logically equivalent to saying: "MSFS is too late to improve its flight model and avionics". So, since I presume you don't think that MSFS is too late in improving its flight model and avionics, it logically follows that it's incoherent on your part to think that XP is too late to improve visuals.

[Janov 2,383]

Another assumption is that at some point in time a user "can´t go back" or "can´t leave his current sim".

If this was true...how come so many folks dumped P3D (or X-Plane) when MSFS came out?

The truth is - a certain percentage of users is smitten with the representation of the "real world" in MSFS. They would have gone to MSFS if XP12 came out in August 2020 as well - its just a feature they really value.

Others (like Austin, Goran and me) don´t really "need" that in their flightsimulators (although we wouldn´t mind having it if it were really done well, I guess).

Just as a mind game - if XP12 came out and featured superior graphics to MSFS - how many folks do you think "could not leave MSFS anymore"?

[mSparks 2,086]

Both can be "Too late", neither live in some isolated world where the only thing to do with your time is pour hours [years] into making XP11 look good or rip out teeth every time a forced MSFS update breaks something.

I also think even LR would concede they are behind where they would like to be - regardless of any competition, turns out flight sim is really hard - who knew?

The number of times I've seen OPs that start along the lines "after XX years I've decided to give [simulator] another go" is painful.

We're going to see a lot more of that over the next few years as all those who fell for the MS marketting hype then ran away in shock come back and give things another go.

I think probably the key value of this preview series is it starts to lay the groundwork for some of them to come back to XP once the new stuff is out - I wish they started sooner.

Edited June 5, 2021 by mSparks

[Greazer 1,320]

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

The weather engine is done.  XP12 will use Xavion's weather engine.  

The weather data / sources may be improved but frankly nobody is expecting next gen visuals and volumetric clouds like <other sims> 

[jarmstro 2,402]

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

Both can be "Too late", neither live in some isolated world where the only thing to do with your time is pour hours [years] into making XP11 look good or rip out teeth every time a forced MSFS update breaks something.

I also think even LR would concede they are behind where they would like to be - regardless of any competition, turns out flight sim is really hard - who knew?

The number of times I've seen OPs that start along the lines "after XX years I've decided to give [simulator] another go" is painful.

We're going to see a lot more of that over the next few years as all those who fell for the MS marketting hype then ran away in shock come back and give things another go.

I think probably the key value of this preview series is it starts to lay the groundwork for some of them to come back to XP once the new stuff is out - I wish they started sooner.

My feeling at this moment in time is that I really want X-Plane to be the number one again. I really want to be able to use it and love it as I used to do. But times change and so must X-Plane for that to happen because it is now out of date. And when all I hear is that LR have no interest in competing and that XP12 will be ready when it's ready and don't give a word not allowed about me as a costumer and I should be grateful for XP11 it honestly doesn't fill me with much hope.

I'm not a professional pilot and use flight sims purely for pleasure. It may be that LR don't care about flight simmers using X-Plane for fun and the best visual and immersive experience they can have for their money and that's fine but they should be straight about it so I can move on.

Their attitude seems to be we don't care what you think, we will take as long as we like to do what we want and we don't care if we loose you. What I would like to hear is that I do matter, don't go because we hear you and we will quickly be back on top and here is what you can look forward to very very soon.

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by jarmstro

[sanh 823]

7 hours ago, Janov said:

Now sanh came in and said "X-Plane should not try to catch up in the areas it is lagging behind. It is too late!"

I never said they shouldn't - just that they should have earlier. My point was people were screaming out for this sort of thing for years but LR took the slow road because their user base was rising anyway because the only competition was a dead end sim (FSX) and a sim built by LM that was at an even slower pace since a lot of focus was on military features.

Now it feels like "oh my god that elephant just over took me - peddle faster" syndrome all of a sudden. I switched over to MSFS and while xplane 11 is still on my PC I rarely use it. Xplane 12 needs to become a lot more than just lighting to get me to buy it and I suspect its the same for a lot of other people. I am sure no one cares about this remark and that's fine. X-plane will survive.

I just feel If LR had the drive they seem to have now, back then, it would be a much better sim and not behind MSFS at all.

Edited June 5, 2021 by sanh

[Janov 2,383]

19 minutes ago, sanh said:

I never said they shouldn't - just that they should have earlier.

Reading your post again word for word - you are right. And I agree that it seems that LR is now "spurred on" by MSFS being so advanced in graphics...and in a way they are.

However most of this stuff was already planned long ago. The move to Vulkan was really the first step to open up modern graphics capabilities - beside the need to eliminate all "stuttering" for FAA certification (most FAA certified setups where still using XP9 for this very reason!).

Many of X-Plane´s users have always longed for better graphics - and those have now moved to MSFS. But others are happy that LR implemented other things first in the version 11 run, you can´t please everybody.

If they had pushed out new graphics first, we would have two simulators with great graphics and crappy everything else now 😁.

So this way we have a choice and you can fly MSFS, I fly X-Plane 🙂

 

[akita 429]

37 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Their attitude seems to be we don't care what you think, we will take as long as we like to do what we want and we don't care if we loose you. What I would like to hear is that I do matter, don't go because we hear you and we will quickly be back on top and here is what you can look forward to very very soon.

 

Out of curiosity, in what way you got that impression.

As a relatively new comer to Xplane (started since Vulkan), I got the exact opposite impression. They are really rebuilding all the graphics, at lest from the way they talk including on their slack channel. Ray marched clouds, 3d trees (i.e. full 3 meshes, not the same thing as MSFS and probably better as this is what AAA games do) and really other cool stuff for VR, recording system etc..

How long and what will make it to V12.00? who knows, but my impression they are really busy working, pretty sure at some point they stated they are looking at what AAA games does for many of the graphics improvements.

I REALLY have high expectations, being not cpu limited like in Vulkan will show it's benefits in graphics.

Edited June 5, 2021 by akita

[Murmur 3,941]

13 minutes ago, akita said:

Out of curiosity, in what way you got that impression.

Answer is easy, most of the people in this thread are simply uninformed or in bad faith.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Murmur

[jarmstro 2,402]

12 minutes ago, akita said:

Out of curiosity, in what way you got that impression.

 

I suppose in all honesty my impression has been formed mainly from XP users on various forums. However the focus seems to have been exclusively on the so called flight model but to me the visuals are of equal or greater importance.

[mSparks 2,086]

36 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Plane for that to happen because it is now out of date.

My VR setup still isn't complete, the 747 community dev is keeping literally thousands entertained.

XP10 was the best flight sim for years after XP11 went live, XP11 is really only just starting to mature - there is still at least one patch left to round it off.

it just is not that simple or black and white. In fact "out of date" is just not true, it was some hyperbole being pushed when people still believed in the MS preview videos.

It can now be improved, it is now being improved. But XP11 still pushes well beyond the boundaries of most peoples hardware, only a tiny fraction have used VR so far, and thats the biggest graphics update any game, sim or hobby has seen in a generation, and has only been "perfect" for a few months - and then only really on hardware bought in the last few months.

tldr: 2D is out of date, because xplane, warthunder, dcs, ac7 and beat saber made it out of date.

[rka 916]

@Janov @GoranM

I think I understand now, you're of course right and the emperor's clothes are truly very beautiful. How stupid of me not to see that before 😉

 

 

[mjrhealth 820]

2 hours ago, rka said:

@Janov @GoranM

I think I understand now, you're of course right and the emperor's clothes are truly very beautiful. How stupid of me not to see that before 😉

 

 

I though the whole point of a flight sim was to fly??? Maybe im just stupid.And I have not purchased any scenery cant see the point, cant see it from 25000 ft. And any good pilot would be too busy landing his plane and concerned about the safety of his passengers to look at teh scenery when landing or taking off.

[mjrhealth 820]

5 hours ago, jarmstro said:

because it is now out of dat

Its only out of date because you spied a better looking woman and now this one looks ugly, broken many a marriage.