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11 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

That was also my first flight simulator! Two runways, two lakes, and a cardboard cut out mountain background :cool:

...and all that running at about 5 FPS, controlling it with rubber keys 😄   But with a 12 year olds imagination filling in the gaps it had me hooked.  Happy days. 🙂

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19 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

I simply don’t understand the scarcity mentality that exists in the minds people. Why does the success of one platform automatically mean the death of all others? How does the saying go? ...”a rising tide lifts all boats” ... or something to that effect. 

In many ways, for the home flight simulation market, MSFS vs X-Plane vs P3D has characteristics of a homogenous product.  I think the definition comes from economics or marketing (I can't remember which one). This means that one product can be substituted for the other for the overwhelming majority of cases.  Notice I said for the "home flight simulation market" because X-Plane and P3D may have commercial customers, but at least for the home flight simulation market, they are more or less homogenous products.

Another example of a homogenous product is Intel vs AMD CPUs. Both can be substituted for the other.  For that reason, the technology and performance gap between Intel and AMD CPUs cannot be too large, at the same price point, or consumers will leave the one that is performing significantly worse.

Edited by abrams_tank
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11 hours ago, johnbow72 said:

Head west out of KSBA to Catalina , the new Orbx scenery is amazing .

I'm going to pick it up as soon as it is in the MP but have a good freeware one now.

Cheers

bs

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1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

 

Another example of a homogenous product is Intel vs AMD CPUs. Both can be substituted for the other.  For that reason, the technology and performance gap between Intel and AMD cannot be too large, at the same price point, or consumers will leave the one that is performing significantly worse.

Right now, Intel is worried, because regarding CPUs, AMD is leaving Intel in the dust. 

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No, Jarmstro, I did not hold it against MSFS that there are only so few helicopters in the posts above 🙄 or say that they are "rubbish". I did say a few months ago that one of the shortcomings of MSFS is the lack of helicopters, that is correct.

I will explain what I wrote today again, a bit more slowly:

When wim123 and I compared the download number for a freeware helicopter choice in both MSFS and X-Plane, he cited "that freeware helicopter" (probably the Bell47), and I cited the Bell429, one of the most popular and sophisticated freeware helicopters in X-Plane.

He quoted a number of 100.000+ for the 47, I quoted 130.000+ for the Bell429.

He then stated that the Bell429 has been available for download a lot longer than the Bell47 - I agreed, but retorted that the Bell429 is just one out of many freeware choices for XP (so the total number of downloads for ALL helicopters would probably scale with the longer download availability).

In no way have I hinted that I believe that the helicopters in MSFS are "rubbish".

And see, everyone? This is how my posts get "misinterpreted" and words are "put into my mouth" with malicious intent. Well, either that or some other reason that makes it hard to comprehend what I write.

Cheers, Jan

 

Edited by Janov

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Remind me what happened to the One Ring in the end?

Edited by ailchim
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5 minutes ago, Janov said:

he cited "that freeware helicopter" (probably the Bell47),

 

The freeware is the H135. It has 235,000 downloads.

The Bell 47G is payware.  It's outstanding.

 

Edited by The Moose
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23 minutes ago, The Moose said:

...and all that running at about 5 FPS, controlling it with rubber keys 😄   But with a 12 year olds imagination filling in the gaps it had me hooked.  Happy days. 🙂

This is the ZX81 version (my first sim as well) no rubber keyboards for us !

Instead IIRC we got to input commands approx once per second by pressing hard enough on a membrane keyboard to register but not too hard so you jostled the RAM pack and crashed the computer,

Those REALLY were the days !

(As an aside I catch a train to commute with one of the team who created the the ZX81 and more specifically the guy who wrote the amazing manual for it - still a stone cold classic)

Edited by Matchstick
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22 minutes ago, Janov said:

I did say a few months ago that one of the shortcomings of MSFS is the lack of helicopters, that is correct.

But you also said there would never be any helicopters because the flight model would not allow it. In what why has the terrible MSFS model changed?

Edited by jarmstro

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13 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

But you also said there would never be any helicopters because the flight model would not allow it.

You must be confusing me with someone else, because I believe that I never said that.

I may have said "the flightmodel does (currently) not allow it" - which was the common belief (and statement by Asobo) at that time. I never said "There will never be any helicopters".

Another prime example of why it is important to not put words in anyone´s mouth, as much as that benefits ones own agenda.

Edited by Janov

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18 minutes ago, Janov said:

You must be confusing me with someone else, because I believe that I never said that.

I may have said "the flightmodel does not allow it" - which was the common belief (and statement by Asobo) at that time. I never said "There will never be any helicopters".

Another prime example of why it is important to not put words in anyone´s mouth, as much as that benefits ones own agenda.

The prevailing view at the time, which you shared,  on all the X-Plane forums was that MSFS was doomed helicopters or no. So atrocious the flight model and bugged was it that no serious flight sim user should consider using it. Now you know what it's like to defend a perfectly good simulator against a wall of hate based on prejudice and error.😀

Edited by jarmstro
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1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

 

Another example of a homogenous product is Intel vs AMD CPUs. Both can be substituted for the other.  For that reason, the technology and performance gap between Intel and AMD CPUs cannot be too large, at the same price point, or consumers will leave the one that is performing significantly worse.

Only for the home market at present - AMD have a lot of hard yards to pull before they get serious penetration into the Enterprise, Server and Datacentre markets.   

Among other things most machine learning and high end statistical software is intel/nvidia only at present. 

As a case in point I recently ordered a new $40k genetics server for work and we looked at AMD CPU/GPU but were told to forget AMD as the software would simply not run on it. We ended up with a Supermicro 4RU server with a couple of 24 core Xeon gold ( as well as 1.5 TB RAM and slots for up to six A100 Tesla cards plus four independent hot swap 1200 watt power supplies to power the Teslas) .  AMD was going to come in a lot cheaper (we paid $US6000 for the two Xeon Gold) but AMD simply was not going to work for us.

That may eventually change but AMD are not there yet outside the home/gaming market.

Edited by Glenn Fitzpatrick

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While MSFS 2020 is a truly amazing endeavor, created almost from scratch, the Microsoft Corp. has,  in effect, used all of us to beta test their product, stating on 8/18/2020 - Some 10 months.  But alas, it's approaching completion as we give high praise to it here...      

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15 hours ago, Tierborn said:

Why would appreciating MSFS start a fight?

You’re new here, right? 😭

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