37 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Pictures and artifacts not only of the Roswell incident but of many other incidents like the one in Socorro where a policeman claims he saw a UFO on the ground

A work colleague of mine knew Lonnie Zamora, the Socorro policeman.  He said that Lonnie didn't like to talk about the incident and usually wouldn't if you asked him about it.

I have a theory about the incident.  Part of the White Sands Missile Range, the Stallion range, is just 10 miles or so southeast of Socorro.  Back in the 60s they were testing lunar landing craft there, and I believe that is what he saw.  A prototype probably flew off the range and had to land due to some issue.  The operators had to exit the craft in order to troubleshoot and repair the problem.  Lonnie claimed seeing figures in jumpsuits outside the craft.  There is also the theory of a hoax perpetrated by students at New Mexico Tech university in Socorro.  Interestingly, the Wikipedia article about this incident now includes the lunar landing explanation, which I don't believe was the case a few years ago, so somebody's been doing some research and updating that page recently.  I didn't know about the student hoax theory.

Dave

The problem with that theory is that the test vehicles for the lunar lander were "open frame" devices. Lonnie Zamora claimed to have seen a smooth, rounded egg shape.

I think the 'blue flame' describes a chemical rocket fuel.  UFOs are supposed to have technology beyond the fueled rocket motors.  When I first read the article that was the first thing I thought of because all previous reports say nothing of exhaust flames.

I hadn't heard the New Mexico Tech story before but given the blue flame it seems to me to be the most likely.

Noel

40 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

The problem with that theory is that the test vehicles for the lunar lander were "open frame" devices. Lonnie Zamora claimed to have seen a smooth, rounded egg shape.

Do you know for certain that all the prototypes were open frame designs?

They could have been experimenting with all sorts of designs.

Dave

36 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Do you know for certain that all the prototypes were open frame designs?

They could have been experimenting with all sorts of designs.

Dave

True, but since the lunar landers were intended to be flown in a vacuum, there is literally no reason for them to be in any way streamlined and in fact plenty of reason not to do that, since it would add to their weight, which is not a good thing when they were being used to test the concept of flying in what would ultimately be 1/6th of Earth's gravity.

The housings around the cockpit of the Lunar research vehicles to keep the blast from the pilot were made from styrofoam for this exact reason of keeping the weight down. Hilariously, one of the things Moon landing conspiracy theorists often bang on about, is that the Lunar lander does not look aerodynamic or strong like a conventional aeroplane, which just goes to show the complete lack of understanding most of those tin foil hat nut jobs labour under.

The  Rolls Royce Thrust Measuring Rig, a.k.a. 'the flying bedstead' prototype used to test the engines for what would eventually become the Harrier, and the Lunar Lander Research Vehicle, also nicknamed the flying bedstead, and the subsequent Lunar Landing Training Vehicles, which pilots Stuart Present, Joe Algranti and Neil Armstrong all ejected from, were never really flown very far or even very high, since they tended to have a maximum altitude of 500 feet and the fact that there were three bail outs from the thing tend to support the notion of it being unlikely any of these would have been flown very far away from a test area, not least because they were not deemed really suitable for much other than a bit of basic testing.

Of course this doesn't mean that there wasn't some other test vehicle being flown at that time which was observed in the area, and in all honesty, this is a far more plausible explanation given the principles of Occam's Razor. I am sure that if most of us would have seen an F-117 being tested in 1981 at Groom Lake, we too might have been inclined to claim we'd seen something not from this planet, since it was kept secret from the general public until 1988 and until it was revealed, it hardly looked like anything most of us would have claimed was an air force bomber type.

Given that thing was kept secret for almost a decade, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a similar thing is occurring with that Tic Tac and other such sightings. It looks amazing and appears to defy what we know, but that's pretty much true of any sufficiently advanced, but entirely Earthbound creation. Of course it could be something other than that, since we don't know everything, but I'm still inclined to suppose it's some kind of military operation or advanced prototype.

Edited June 11, 20214 yr by Chock

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

Any of you who are truly interested in UFOs come to Roswell New Mexico and visit the IFO Museum and Research Center.

 

Okay Noel, send me the plane fair and accommodation dosh. 😁

Zamora's story is interesting but why a super advanced alien craft would lift off initially with rocket thrust baffles me. And then of course it switched to alien silent super-tech mode and flew away. 

 

 

Edited June 11, 20214 yr by martin-w

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

Okay Noel, send me the plane fair and accommodation dosh.

The best I can do is take you to dinner at the Cattle Baron.

Noel

8 hours ago, martin-w said:

You should watch the documentary The Phenomenon. Its on Amazon Prime. About 4 quid to buy. I watched it last night, its very good. 

It is very good yes. 
I’d be interested in what you thought about the accounts by the South African school children? 
Chilling stuff.

I looked at some pictures of the 1969 Apollo lunar lander, and it actually does have a somewhat overall oval shape to it.  

I can see where someone back in the 1960s who had never seen anything like it before and had no clue what it was might see this from a distance and describe it as egg or oval shaped.

Dave

Edited June 11, 20214 yr by dave2013

2 hours ago, jon b said:

It is very good yes. 
I’d be interested in what you thought about the accounts by the South African school children? 
Chilling stuff.

 

Very interesting. Although why aliens would telepathically tell children technolgy was bad when they themselves are using technology is odd. Unless they meant our technology is bad and we need to switch to tech that's less harmful.

 

And why tell that to children when they have no capability to correct such a thing? Government officials are the people they should have spoken too. Unless they were just passing by and just thought they'd mention it while they were here. 😁

My favourite is the school in Australia. So many witnesses including teachers that all describe the same flying saucers defying physics. And the teacher was threatened by the authorities. They told him only a drunk would claim he saw such things and that if he spoke about it again the school would be informed and he'd lose his job. They also told him he'd be prosecuted under the official secrets act. 

All of the witnesses seemed 100% genuine. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I looked at some pictures of the 1969 Apollo lunar lander, and it actually does have a somewhat overall oval shape to it.  

I can see where someone back in the 1960s who had never seen anything like it before and had no clue what it was might see this from a distance and describe it as egg or oval shaped.

Dave

 

The only issue with that is that Zamora said that once it was in the air it hovered silently and then moved away silently.

Flying bedstead couldnt do that. Range was also very limited. 

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

They also told him he'd be prosecuted under the official secrets act. 

If the authorities had nothing to hide, they wouldn't have needed to make the threat of prosecution under the "official secrets act."  😣

Did aliens help create historical technologies?

 

14 hours ago, n4gix said:

If the authorities had nothing to hide, they wouldn't have needed to make the threat of prosecution under the "official secrets act."  😣

 

Precisely. I think if this was just a bunch of kids saying they had seen a saucer zooming around in an apparently physics defying way we could suggest it was just over emotional kids telling stories. But when its the teachers too that tell exactly the same story its a different scenario altogether. 

The Roswell incident occurred in 1947.  That's when the secrecy and cover-up began with General Ramey telling Major Marcel to pose with weather balloon debris.

It's hard for me to believe with so many people involved in the incident from the soldiers and airmen who cleaned up the debris from the crash site to the pilots and crew who loaded the aircraft and transported the debris and so-called remains to Wright Patterson Air Force Base and all the people who examined and tested the wreckage pieces  along with alleged subsequent incidents that secrets could be kept for so long. 

Some people involved at every level would certainly have said something on their death-beds.  

For 74 years we have been seeing, reporting, chasing, and taking rather fuzzy pictures of unidentified flying objects of all sizes and shapes.  Yet we the people know no more than we knew 74 years ago when the Roswell incident lit the fuse.

For me to become a believer, as opposed to a wonderer, I am going to have see real physical evidence displayed and explained by a reputable source.

Noel