For those contemplating the VISTA O.S. vs XP O.S for FSX might want to read this article.

[Guest dpc]

A couple of good reads. Thanks for posting them.

[Guest Traffic]

Topics like this one always create strong feelings and for good reason. A lot of good points made and it's great to see a debate like this.Personally, I'm all for anti piracy and have seen first hand the negative effects of it in many sectors.I think at one point there was a balance in check that tried to accommodate paying customers while protecting the investment made by companies developing the product.Sadly, I don't see that balance today. It seems the good people out there are being trampled over by corporations combating piracy. Of course, companies have to do something and they have to prove to their shareholders that something is done, but at what cost?MSFT spent, I'm sure, up wards of tens of millions, and who knows how many man hours, in developing a system to protect Vista against piracy. And even on the eve of the release of Vista there are more than twenty different ways to crack it, the most widely used one is the volume licence activation of Business and Enterprise using Chinese KMS servers that MSFT cannot do a thing about.I read yesterday that already over a hundred thousand copies of Vista have been activated illegally using this method in China alone.So where did all these hours and dollars go? And how is MSFT going to recover the cost? Easy; charge $400 for a copy of Vista in the US, $500CAD in Canada and $750USD for it in Europe.Anti piracy methods and DRM so far, whether in Software, music or movies, have not worked. I cannot think of one that wasn't cracked and now so widely available that even my grandma can use them.What they have achieved though is proof that a company is doing something to combat piracy and can prove it to their boards and shareholders.Also, sadly, it has continued to frustrate legit customers to the point that it's just ridiculous.So in a way all this money MSFT spent was kind of a waste. Why not, considering this for a split moment, MSFT divert this enormous fund into making its products more affordable? Why not make it so that people would have to think twice about the value of pirating a software, song or movie as opposed to buying it? I know this is a crazy idea and will not bode well in the shareholder meetings, but what if it's considered for just a moment.Anyways, just my 0.02

[Guest Charlie]

>>Ok, you're against software piracy, but it's not the>>responibilty of the consumer to react, but it's also wrong,>if>>a company takes measures to stop illegal activities, which>is>>able to wipe out and entire generation of artist, record>>companies, software manufacturers and movie makers. Who>should>>take some action then?>>>>It's wrong when they inhibit, degrade or otherwise interfere>with my use of hardware I purchase. That's part of the DRM>system incorporated within Vista. They can literally shut>your audio card down as they see fit based on their own>"rules" defined by the RIAA and MPAA. Own a DVD burner? DRM>will disable it.>>>Substantial prosecution sounds like a good alternative, but>>unfortunately not practical, because it would overwhelm any>>judical system. You simply cannot throw every 12yo into>jail,>>who choses to download the latest Top 10 song.>>>>No, you go after those who provide the access.>>>The problem has to be defeated by the source and that is,>>unfortunately, DRM. You/We are paying the price for a>>generation that has no respect for ownership. Mind me, I>have>>also created mix tapes for my friends back in the 80s, but>>that is just nothing compared to the MASSIVE copyright and>>illectual infringements that are being violated nowadays. I>>welcome the change, even it does inconvienence me.>>>>Respect for ownership? Last I checked I owned this PC and all>it's associated hardware. Last I checked there was nothing in>any legal system that allows third parties to decide whether>or not hardware I own legally can or can not be used. I make>a mere pittance by comparison to "them"... why are their>rights more valuable than mine? They're not, you know it, I>know it. The world's biggest lawsuit is in the near future>and I see MS, the RIAA and MPAA and lord knows who else in>this "axis of evil" losing a lot of cash.>>>Again, DRM or WGA will only affect the ones who chose to>break>>the law and use it. It will 'inconvenience' us, but that's>it.>>It has hardly to do with taking our freedom or liberty away.>>>>>>I have a DVD burner. I have a right, yes right to use it. >Vista will shut it down, completely. That's not an>inconvenience, it's theft.>Great points! Thank you!! There are a few more of us than I would have guessed. :-beerchug

[flyking 0]

Well said. I personally don't think MS gives a darn about their honest consumers nor the inconvenience and expense that result from MS's draconian and invasive so called anti-piracy measures. Whats really funny is that similar restrictions have never worked that well before and I have my doubts that they will work any better in Vista either. I guess we'll see. As long as there are so many people who are more than willing to bend over and take it in the shorts and pay exorbitant amounts of money for windows products MS will keep tightening the screws a little more each time. How sad that so many people are so blindly willing to relinquish control of their computers to a company that has been convicted in courts of law at least twice for illegal monopolistic practices. If you are willing to give your freedoms away-they will gladly take them from you. XP for me for now until I decide to buy Vista or they shove it down my throat by pulling XP support out from under me.

[WarpD 824]

>Well said. I personally don't think MS gives a darn about>their honest consumers nor the inconvenience and expense that>result from MS's draconian and invasive so called anti-piracy>measures. Whats really funny is that similar restrictions>have never worked that well before and I have my doubts that>they will work any better in Vista either. I guess we'll see.> As long as there are so many people who are more than >willing to bend over and take it in the shorts and pay>exorbitant amounts of money for windows products MS will keep>tightening the screws a little more each time. How sad that>so many people are so blindly willing to relinquish control of>their computers to a company that has been convicted in courts>of law at least twice for illegal monopolistic practices. If>you are willing to give your freedoms away-they will gladly>take them from you. XP for me for now until I decide to buy>Vista or they shove it down my throat by pulling XP support>out from under me. Here's a direct quote from the U.S. Federal Trade Commission regarding the recent Sony audio CD anti-piracy software that was installed on PCs without knowledge and consent:"Consumers' computers belong to them, and companies must adequately disclose unexpected limitations on the customary use of their products so consumers can make informed decisions regarding whether to purchase and install that content," FTC Chairman Deborah Majoras said in a statement.Trust me... there's a new lawsuit brewing, it's just a matter of time before someone goes after DRM in Vista.

[n4gix 4,947]

>The problem of piracy of movies and music, or even to stop>child porn is not Microsoft's responsibility, so why are they>getting Vista involved in all this?Statements like this set my teeth on edge, and make me dizzy...Folks, it's this very abrogation of responsibility that's the proximate cause of the problem(s) to begin with!It is the responsibility of every person on this planet to embrace one's personal responsibility to combat evil.This attitude of "NMP" (Not-My-Problem) only allows evil to florish and prosper...

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

From a GOOGLE search...As a copy protection measure, Sony BMG included the Extended Copy Protection (XCP) and MediaMax CD-3 software on music CDs. XCP was put on 52 albums[1] and MediaMax was put on 50 albums.[2] This software was automatically installed on desktop computers when customers tried to play the CDs. The software interferes with the normal way in which the Microsoft Windows operating system plays CDs, opening security holes that allow viruses to break in, and causing other problems. It is widely described as spyware.As a result, a number of parties have filed lawsuits against Sony BMG; the company ended up recalling all the affected CDs; and greater public attention was drawn to the issue of commercially-backed spyware.BackgroundIn August, 2000, statements by Sony Pictures Entertainment US senior VP Steve Heckler foreshadowed the events of late 2005. Heckler told attendees at the Americas Conference on Information Systems "The industry will take whatever steps it needs to protect itself and protect its revenue streams...It will not lose that revenue stream, no matter what...Sony is going to take aggressive steps to stop this. We will develop technology that transcends the individual user. We will firewall Napster at source - we will block it at your cable company, we will block it at your phone company, we will block it at your ISP. We will firewall it at your PC...These strategies are being aggressively pursued because there is simply too much at stake."[3] BMG in Europe experienced a similar scandal in 2002 when CDs were sold with copy protection measures, but without any warning labels. They eventually were replaced by BMG,[4] but the label made clear intentions to continue copy-protection innovations.[5][6][edit] Sony BMG software issuesOn 2005-10-31, Mark Russinovich posted to his blog a detailed description and technical analysis of the characteristics of the software contained on Sony BMG music CDs. Called "Sony, Rootkits and Digital Rights Management Gone Too Far,"the article asserts vocally that the software is illegitimate and that digital rights management had "gone too far."[7][edit] Security holesRussinovich stated that there were shortcomings in the software design that manifest themselves as security holes that can be exploited by malicious software such as worms or viruses. He also mentioned that the XCP software installed silently before the EULA appeared, that the EULA does not mention the XCP software, and that there was no uninstaller, all of which are illegal in various ways in various jurisdictions. Several comments to the entry recommended a lawsuit against Sony BMG.Ed Felten's Freedom to tinker blog featured an article by J. Alex Halderman discussing the SunnComm DRM also found on some Sony BMG CDs, which is very similar to the F4I software in that it installs without authorization or notification, and does not have an uninstaller.[8][edit] Resource drainThe article also asserts that the software runs in the background and consumes system resources, slowing down the user's computer, regardless of whether there is a protected CD playing or not.[edit] Poor designRussinovich presented evidence that the software employs unsafe procedures to start/stop the rootkit, which could lead to system crashes (the infamous BSoD) and that inexpert attempts to uninstall the software can lead to the Windows operating system failing to recognize existing drive(s). The Sony rootkit is designed to hide any files, registry keys and processes starting with the string $sys$, making it very easy for writers of worms and other malware to also hide their files by simply using the same name. Within weeks there were several trojans and worms taking advantage of this functionality in machines already compromised by the Sony rootkit.Anti-virus firm F-Secure asserted, "Although the software isn't directly malicious, the used rootkit hiding techniques are exactly the same used by malicious software to hide themselves. The DRM software will cause many similar false alarms with all AV software that detect rootkits. ... Thus it is very inappropriate for commercial software to use these techniques."[9] After public pressure, Symantec[10] and other anti-virus vendors included detection for the rootkit in their products as well, and Microsoft announced it would include detection and removal capabilities in their security patches.[11][edit] Rootkit removal programSony BMG released a software utility to remove the rootkit component of XCP from affected Microsoft Windows computers, but this removal utility was soon analyzed by Russinovich again in his November 5, 2005, blog and revealed as only exacerbating the privacy and security concerns.[12]In fact, the Sony BMG removal program merely unmasked the hidden files installed by the rootkit, but did not actually remove the rootkit. In addition, this program was reported to install additional software that cannot be uninstalled. In order to download the uninstaller, it is necessary to provide an e-mail address (which the Sony BMG Privacy Policy implies to be added to various bulk e-mail lists), and to install an ActiveX control containing backdoor methods (marked as "safe for scripting", and thus prone to exploits).[13]On 2005-11-18, Sony BMG provided a "new and improved" removal tool to remove the rootkit component of XCP from affected Microsoft Windows computers.Opponents of Sony BMG's actions, including Slashdot and Digg contributors, later accused Sony BMG of violating the privacy of its customers to create a backdoor onto their machine using code that itself violates an open-source license. They claimed that this DRM program, designed to give Sony BMG control over the customer's machine in the name of copyright protection, is itself infringing copyright by including code from the LAME MP3 library.[14] While LAME is licensed under the GNU LGPL, it appears to be statically linked so defaults to the GNU GPL, which would require the release of the complete source code for XCP.[edit] PreventionThe XCP software can be prevented from installing in several ways. First of all, a user can refuse to purchase such copy-protected CDs. Second, it is possible to disable autorun so that the software will not run automatically (this can be done temporarily by holding the SHIFT key while inserting the CD, or permanently by modifying the Windows Registry). Putting a piece of opaque (to infrared) tape or some other light blocker on the portion of the CD where the executable is stored will also prevent the DRM from running.[15] An alternative is to use an operating system which the software does not automatically install itself on, such as GNU/Linux or Mac OS X, or running Windows under a restricted account instead of an administrator account, in which case the installation program will not have permission to install the rootkit.[edit] Legal and financial problems[edit] Product recallOn 2005-11-15, vnunet.com announced that Sony BMG was backing out of its copy-protection software, recalling unsold CDs from all stores, and offering consumers to exchange their CDs with versions lacking the software. The Electronic Frontier Foundation compiled a partial list of CDs with XCP. Sony BMG was quoted as maintaining that "there were no security risks associated with the anti-piracy technology", despite numerous virus and malware reports. On 2005-11-16, US-CERT, part of the United States Department of Homeland Security, issued an advisory on XCP DRM. They said that XCP uses rootkit technology to hide certain files from the computer user, and that this technique is a security threat to computer users. They also said one of the uninstallation options provided by Sony BMG introduces further vulnerabilities to a system. US-CERT advised, "Do not install software from sources that you do not expect to contain software, such as an audio CD."[16]Sony BMG announced that it had instructed retailers to remove any unsold music discs containing the software from their shelves.[17] It was estimated by internet expert Dan Kaminsky that XCP was in use on more than 500,000 networks. [18]CDs with XCP technology can be identified by the letters "XCP" printed on the back cover of the jewel case for the CD.On 2005-11-18, Reuters reported that Sony BMG would exchange affected insecure CDs for new unprotected disks as well as unprotected MP3 files.Information about the swap can be found at the Sony BMG swap program website. As a part of the swap program, consumers can mail their XCP-protected CDs to Sony BMG and would be sent an unprotected disc via return mail.On 2005-11-29 the New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer found through his investigators that despite the recall of November 15 Sony BMG CDs with XCP were still for sale in New York City music retail outlets. Spitzer said "It is unacceptable that more than three weeks after this serious vulnerability was revealed, these same CDs are still on shelves, during the busiest shopping days of the year," "I strongly urge all retailers to heed the warnings issued about these products, pull them from distribution immediately, and ship them back to Sony."[19]On 2005-11-30 Massachusetts Attorney General Tom Reilly issued a statement saying that Sony BMG CDs with XCP were still available in Boston despite the Sony BMG recall of November 15. Attorney General Reilly advised consumers not to purchase the Sony BMG CDs with XCP and said that he was conducting an investigation of Sony BMG.As of 2006-01-26, Sony BMG's website offered consumers no reference to this issue and no way to locate Sony BMG's explanation or list of affected CD's.As of 2006-05-11, Sony BMG's website offered consumers a link to "Class Action Settlement Information Regarding XCP And Mediamax Content Protection." It has online claim filing and links to software updates/uninstallers.[edit] Legal situationA number of parties have sued Sony BMG for their actions in distributing the infected CDs.[edit] Texas state actionOn 2005-11-21, the Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott sued Sony BMG. Texas is the first state in the United States to bring legal action against Sony BMG in this matter. The suit is also the first filed under the state

[Guest]

They wonder why they are failing to control the market.. the more you treat the customers like criminals the more they will act like such... nobody except some folks who don't know better are rushing to vista... the sales with new computers is what MS is hoping for to constitute their sales. however i wonder what percentage of these new computers get the immediate one hour wipe and reformat once out the store.I am yet to come across a prebuilt machine that did not require this due to all the preinstalled crap that comes with them. now vista is a whole reason on it's own.happy computing.. i guess. time to upgrade that ram though first.

[aerdt 0]

Any yet another post that is just dripping of incorrect facts:You referencing a case by SONY. Old news and it does not have anything to do with Vista or Microsoft.Missing software?Name ONE exampleNo-longer active software?Not happening, if not legitimally purchasedHardware crippled?Usually poor drivers from 3rd party manufacturersLocked out of the system?Write down your password and do a backup. This practise has been common for 20+ yearsSoftware added by Vista?Security patches. Can be de-activated. Clearly notifies you that you consent for the OS periodically checking for updates. Read the EULA and read what checkboxes you click on. Noone seems to do that anymore. Nothing new compared to XP.Nothing has anything to do with Vista. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.Pat

[WarpD 824]

>Any yet another post that is just dripping of incorrect>facts:>>You referencing a case by SONY. Old news and it does not have>anything to do with Vista or Microsoft.>>Missing software?>Name ONE example>DRM has the "right" to shut down any software it deems as potentially harmful towards DR. Not a virus, but say a recording application designed to record music.>No-longer active software?>Not happening, if not legitimally purchased>DRM has the "right" to deactivate any software it deems as potentially harmful towards DR. Say you're recording a DVD of some home movies... and decide to watch a legally purchased DVD at the same time on a separate drive. DRM will literally abort your DVD recording and disable the physical drive along with the recording software.>Hardware crippled?>Usually poor drivers from 3rd party manufacturers>All drivers are required to comply with DRM protection standards. If your video driver "detects" anything "odd", it's supposed to set some special bits so that the OS can then disable the video driver.>Locked out of the system?>Write down your password and do a backup. This practise has>been common for 20+ years>If DRM decides your copy of Vista is illegal (whether it is or isn't) it will completely shut down. Period.>Software added by Vista?>Security patches. Can be de-activated. Clearly notifies you>that you consent for the OS periodically checking for updates.>Read the EULA and read what checkboxes you click on. Noone>seems to do that anymore. Nothing new compared to XP.>No... the new EULA allows them to add and remove any and all applications from your hard drive. Not just the OS files.>Nothing has anything to do with Vista. GET YOUR FACTS>STRAIGHT.>>Pat>I suggest you get yours straight. Clearly there's a lot about Vista and DRM you simply don't know.

[aerdt 0]

>DRM has the "right" to shut down any software it deems as>potentially harmful towards DR. Not a virus, but say a>recording application designed to record music.Incorrect. DRM has only the "right", if you choose to purchase DRM media. If you don't use it, it won't affect you for one bit.>DRM has the "right" to deactivate any software it deems as>potentially harmful towards DR. Say you're recording a DVD of>some home movies... and decide to watch a legally purchased>DVD at the same time on a separate drive. DRM will literally>abort your DVD recording and disable the physical drive along>with the recording software.The statement is categorically wrong, unless you try to squeeze two DVD into one slot. LOL. I happen to have 2 drives in my main machine and just proved you wrong by recording a DVD while watching a movie.>All drivers are required to comply with DRM protection>standards. If your video driver "detects" anything "odd",>it's supposed to set some special bits so that the OS can then>disable the video driver.Point me to the evidence right out of the mouth of MS.>If DRM decides your copy of Vista is illegal (whether it is or>isn't) it will completely shut down. Period.If you play by the book and don't use illegal copies then it won't affect you. It is the same outcry like years ago, when ATM with pin numbers were introduced and people got all worked up about it.>No... the new EULA allows them to add and remove any and all>applications from your hard drive. Not just the OS files.Show me the paragraph. The only references I can find are:"IF TURNED ON, Windows Defender will search yourcomputer for

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

Pat, this post doesn't deserve a response other than the following;I understand the ramifications of VISTA as laid out by those holding doctorates in the field of I.T.This (Sony's bullying and illegal attempt at DRM)totally coincides with what VISTA is going to offer the user.I suggest you not get so emotional over this, where you decide that someone else's 'facts' are 'not straight facts' if they happen to NOT align with your take of Vista and what it entails for the user of such.Mitch R.

[Guest allcott]

I remember the days when `anti-piracy` meant going after the pirates, you know, the ones sailing under a skull & crossbones? These days `anti-piracy` means going after everybody, to ensure you get the pirates in the trawl. FSX activation is already like that. Shame it doesn't catch any pirates either.I seem to recall a World War being fought against that kind of genocidal thinking. "These people are no good. Let's get rid of them all..."Corporations are using `piracy` as their mantra to justify profit-based anti-trust activities in the same way that governments are increasingly telling us what to think under the guise of `security`. And although this isn't the place to discuss it, understand this: Latest UK government proposals in a country already recognised as the most heavily security-camera populated on earth, is to introduce X-ray cameras in public places: "To help spot concealed weapons and bombs". Now our government doesn't just want to spy on our every move on every street, it feels justified in getting UNDER our clothing? Thought Police can't be far away.These are dangerous times. Not because these things are proposed - idiot politicians supported by self-serving bureaucrats can always be relied on to have stupid ideas - but because there are too few people willing or able to think for themselves that something is wrong, and say so. We have abrogated personal responsibility but haven't gained a collective social conscience in return, instead we've handed the keys to the asylum to the lunatics and we blindly do as we are told. Sheep driven by donkeys.In simming terms: FSX is not what we wanted. ACES are trying to deliver what we did want. Hooray! But how they could get it SO very wrong when everything they needed to deliver was as clear as day? Meanwhile the rest of MS seemingly have no such qualms about Vista and are going to tell us what we want. Whether we want it or not. And interestingly, the government two-step of `security` has already risen its ugly little two-faced head. And if we argue, it's only because we don't understand what a `problem` piracy is. Really? What were MS profits last year again?http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2086653,00.aspFSX has, in microcosm, exposed the sheer unadulterated arrogance that permeates MIcrosoft. Now Vista gets the spin. Neither are what we want or need. But we got them anyway. But this time FSX is failing to set the tills alight, and FS9 remains the sim of choice. Boy, that first patch had better be good - and DX10 had better be a miracle cure! Allcott

[aerdt 0]

Mitch,the only reason for your postings is to create a counter-hype by suppling people with incorrect facts.I am certainly not a MS fanboi, but I base my arguments on facts, not the results found when googling for "Vista/DRM issues".Pat

[aerdt 0]

Alcott,I agree with most of your points and arguments. Everyone is getting punished by the wrongdoings on a small minority or software pirates and hackers. However, this seems to be the only solution to the problem.What about all the other electronic surveillance? Do we know nowadays where our data is stored and how they are protected? We don't.Take spam. I sign up for a forum and suddenly my mailbox gets flooded with 700 emails a day, because someone either sold my information to a 3rd party or some hacker/searchbot extracted my email. I consider that a much greater threat of invasion of my privacy. And, most importantly, there is NOTHING that you can do about it than to either invest money for spam filters or do completely move to a new email.I do understand that people are afraid to feel that sense of helplessness when it comes to DRM. However, at least that approach is honest, documented and monitored by hordes of anti-trust organizations and governments around the world.Does that make me more comfortable? Not at all!! It's the price that we pay for living in the digital age.Pat