PMDG DC-6 thought

[honanhal 1,420]

14 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

The interesting part is once the majority of the PMDG products make it into MSFS, whether the final P3D holdouts who mainly fly PMDG planes in P3D, will stick with P3D or jump to MSFS.

I'm sure at least some will jump to MSFS. That said, it's interesting that you already see the emerging psychology of some other folks who have already started to lay the initial groundwork for a "PMDG betrayal" narrative. These people see PMDG's decision to develop for MSFS not through the lens of a milestone in MSFS's coming of age, but rather as PMDG stabbing P3D in the back and leaving its existing (i.e. P3D) fans in the lurch. So if/when PMDG ends P3D development, some percentage of those people will choose P3D over PMDG, in spite of their previous tribal identity as PMDG superfans. No doubt the claim will be that PMDG has "dumbed down" its products and turned its back on its brand, regardless of whether there's any truth to that claim.

There's a closely related probability, too, that if FSL continues to shun (or at least remain silent) on MSFS development, that these same people will rally to FSL as the new sole standard-bearer of "true" (read: exclusive) simming.

It's an interesting real-time lesson in tribalism!

James

[Tierborn 188]

58 minutes ago, Chock said:

Nah, it's useful in Air Hauler, so it won't be in my hangar gathering dust.

I do like that thought .. use it in Air Hauler.  I was struggling with how to make use of the plane feel realistic.  Use it as a cargo plane works for me.

[Tierborn 188]

16 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Never happen, the aircraft that will be gathering dust are the other aircraft in my hangar now. 

It will happen, you are enjoying it because its a recent release.  When PMDG and other developers release currently used aircraft, this one will not interest most at that point.

[GCBraun 2,390]

PMDG´s DC-6 for MSFS is legendary already. People will remember it years from now just like simming icons such as the Level-D 767 and Dreamfleet´s 727.

Edited June 28, 2021 by GCBraun

[Bobsk8 12,545]

22 minutes ago, Tierborn said:

It will happen, you are enjoying it because its a recent release.  When PMDG and other developers release currently used aircraft, this one will not interest most at that point.

Most aircraft I have flown like PMDG and A2A, in other sims, I have flown for many years. Same as flying in real life, I enjoy flying an aircraft that I like. No need to switch. You sound like the type of person that gets easily bored with what you are flying, not me. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Bobsk8

[Aristoteles 470]

I have been flying "follow the magenta line" planes in sims for 20 years. LNAV, VNAV, full automation. I found myself doing planning,programming and preflight checking them  way longer than actually "flying" them. 5 minute of takeoff procedure+5 minutes of AP off , mostly Autoland landings. TO ME, its gets boring, it´s kinda spectacular and gives you the impression of professionality. I flew LDS 767 and PMDG Dc-11 for hundrred of hours, and I LOVED THEM.

After that I checked the Tu-154, the Connie, Dc-6,... and well, they are obviously not "fire and forget", what seems to be the cause of  them not being on the top spots in the flight simming world. But the feeling of achievement it´s way bigger to me after 20 flights of full automation and hours of CDU programming.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Aristoteles

[eslader 1,779]

11 hours ago, Cognita said:

I think the implementation of the AFE is brilliant and if they do this on their 737 that it will encourage a lot of people to purchase and help them to fly a modern jet.

You don't need an AFE on a 737. It's already set up so that a flight engineer isn't necessary. The AFE in the DC-6 is taking the place of the actual flight engineer. You can't fly a DC-6 without that crew position in real life.

The 737 automates all of the things a flight engineer would otherwise have to do, so we won't need an AFE in it.  I've got their 737 in p3d, and once you get your head around the systems, flying it is actually pretty easy.  The learning curve is in how to set up the automated systems to follow your flight plan, etc. The actual flying is a lot easier than in the DC-6, but learning the systems is considerably more involved (because it actually has systems. 😄 )

But once you've learned the systems, everything's easier. Those of us who usually sim in modern jets have a lot more trouble working the primitive autopilots and not wrecking the engines in the DC6 than we have flying the big tubeliners.

 

 

 

[kaha 205]

2 hours ago, honanhal said:

.... some percentage of those people will choose P3D over PMDG, in spite of their previous tribal identity as PMDG superfans. ...

I respect their decision. There are several reasons for it.

A friend of mine is still on FSX, flying his PMDG 737. He thinks he is too old to move on and is afraid that upgrading his hardware and going from Win7 to Win10 could go wrong and prevent him from simming ever again.

Others have invested a lot and don't want to let go.

That said I believe that someone who is still on P3D but has a somewhat good hardware on Win10 should have a parallel MSFS installation, maybe on an additional SSD. This will not cost much and will probably open new horizons to him.

Karl

[abrams_tank 7,393]

2 hours ago, honanhal said:

 So if/when PMDG ends P3D development, some percentage of those people will choose P3D over PMDG, in spite of their previous tribal identity as PMDG superfans. No doubt the claim will be that PMDG has "dumbed down" its products and turned its back on its brand, regardless of whether there's any truth to that claim.

I can understand if some users of P3D decide to stick with P3D, even if 3rd party devs abandon P3D.    What is weird is that there are some 3rd party devs who vow to stick with P3D or X-Plane, even as P3D and X-Plane lose market share to MSFS.  I think I've seen a few 3rd party devs here in AVSIM who claim they will stick with P3D or X-Plane.  That's the same as some stubborn Blackberry developers who insisted on sticking with Blackberry as it lost market share to IPhone (and eventually Android).  

The smarter 3rd party devs will go where the market is going, and right now, that is MSFS.  The not so smart 3rd party devs will stick with P3D or X-Plane as both of those flight simulators continually lose market share to MSFS.

[cavaricooper 2,613]

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

The smarter 3rd party devs will go where the market is going, and right now, that is MSFS.  The not so smart 3rd party devs will stick with P3D or X-Plane as both of those flight simulators continually lose market share to MSFS.

Not particularly nuanced, however, blindingly accurate in my opinion.  You all already know what they say about opinions....

[honanhal 1,420]

22 minutes ago, kaha said:

I respect their decision. There are several reasons for it.

Oh, there are certainly fair, coherent reasons for sticking with P3D (or even FSX, as you say). The interesting cognitive dissonance I'm talking about here is the people who have specifically articulated their reason for sticking with P3D as "MSFS is an eye-candy game, not a sim, and the proof of that is there are no study-level planes."

Now that PMDG, inarguably a "study-level" developer, has released an aircraft for MSFS, those people have two options. They can 1) change their minds with the facts and admit that MSFS is a "sim" by their definition, or 2) move the goalposts. In other words, they simply change their reasoning. "Ok, it may have study-level aircraft, but it still doesn't have X" (fill in the blank -- a visibility slider, weather that perfectly matches METARs, a full suite of AI traffic, full RNAV capability in default aircraft, etc. etc. etc.) You can play this game forever, because MSFS, like every sim that came before it, will always be missing something. 🙂

James

[BobFS88 633]

25 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The smarter 3rd party devs will go where the market is going, and right now, that is MSFS.  The not so smart 3rd party devs will stick with P3D or X-Plane as both of those flight simulators continually lose market share to MSFS.

Most of the developers who have diversified their markets have been very successful, like Orbx, Aerosoft, Virticalsim, DD and others. Because they understand that it's never a good business strategy in putting all you'll eggs in one basket no matter how certain you think the market is. 

Today is a snap shot of what things look like now. But things can always change to what may not alway lineup to your playbook. 

 

[honanhal 1,420]

34 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The smarter 3rd party devs will go where the market is going, and right now, that is MSFS.  The not so smart 3rd party devs will stick with P3D or X-Plane as both of those flight simulators continually lose market share to MSFS.

Yeah, this also seems like the obvious call to me, which is why I'm surprised at one developer who has always struck me as fairly savvy (ok, with one glaring exception) has NOT announced development for MSFS. I'm of course talking about FSL. Will be interesting to see where they go, and when. Or, if they don't go for MSFS, how they explain why.

Edited June 28, 2021 by honanhal

[abrams_tank 7,393]

12 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

Most of the developers who have diversified their markets have been very successful, like Orbx, Aerosoft, Virticalsim, DD and others. Because they understand that it's never a good business strategy in putting all you'll eggs in one basket no matter how certain you think the market is. 

Today is a snap shot of what things look like now. But things can always change to what may not alway lineup to your playbook. 

 

Yup.  Diversification is always the smart choice.  I mean, if another flight simulator for the home market is to come out in the next few years, and this upcoming flight simulator looks like it's more sophisticated and advanced than MSFS, a smart developer would look into potentially developing for that upcoming flight simulator too, rather than only focusing on MSFS.

One difference between the story of Blackberry vs IPhone and P3D/XPlane vs MSFS is that when the IPhone came out, Blackberry developers had almost no warning and little time to prepare for it.  MSFS was announced 1 year before it was released with some teaser photos and as the year went by, even some sample video was released for MSFS.  Compared to Blackberry developers, P3D & XPlane developers had plenty of advanced notice.

 

[BobFS88 633]

14 minutes ago, honanhal said:

I'm of course talking about FSL. Will be interesting to see where they go, and when. Or, if they don't go for MSFS, how they explain why.

Interesting if they don't maybe looking to be the dog on a different platform. The opportunity is there for the taking. Why go to an already over crowded field. Just IMO.