What's Happening with X-Plane.com

[mSparks 2,086]

29 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

No...the performance did not much improve much. Long explanations do not change that reality...

 long explanation?

I thought it was pretty simplified?

45fps before vulkan on low settings became 107fps after vulkan on high settings.

you may think that isnt much, but it makes the difference between VR being a good experience vs not.

Edited July 13, 2021 by mSparks

[FlyBaby 659]

12 hours ago, jarmstro said:

With the release of MSFS it was instantly clear that XP was out of date in terms of performance and aesthetics. If sties like the Org had been less censorious in stamping out any criticism and statements of the obvious the penny might have dropped with Meyer a lot sooner. How is he to know if all he hears is endless praise and sees nothing but worshipful sycophantic head nodding?

What was he meant to think when his followers were for so long telling him that they had no interest in 'eye candy'? All that mattered was the flight model. Even now you can read people posting that they prefer the way default XP looks. 

 

Not so...

Austin has been aware of the criticism about XP's visuals. In a video years ago he joked about the XP looking like a "giant green" carpet. He would have also had to have known that the ocean looked like a blue quilted blanket.

In his vid review of X-Enviro, he stated that XP clouds are not that great (again joking about it)). Interestingly enough...he reviewed XE as if he did not know much about it...whereas the XE Dev had been trying to work with LR for a while to overcome some limitations (no 3PD Dev engagement).

If you look at enough older vids / interviews, you will see that Austin basically ignored the requests of the community...

All of the flight sim Devs were fine with stale development and letting the 3PD fill in the gaps...leaving users with bogged down Frankenstein Sims just to get a decent visual flight experience...

MSFS changed all of that...built a solid foundation...engaged with 3P Devs...built the store...interacts with the community...responds almost immediately to their concerns etc. XP12 has to be about more than just features, it is the attitude and commitment of the Dev that is making the difference these days.

IMO, Austin has always taken an arrogant (he knows best) posture towards the community. Whereas Asobo is reaching out, even asking for help from the community with building a sim for the community to enjoy. Huge difference...HUGE DIFFERENCE....

Edited July 13, 2021 by FlyBaby

[jarmstro 2,402]

33 minutes ago, mSparks said:

 long explanation?

I thought it was pretty simplified?

45fps before vulkan on low settings became 107fps after vulkan on high settings.

you may think that isnt much, but it makes the difference between VR being a good experience vs not.

For you maybe. For me it was more modest.. A significant improvement for me with Vulkan of about 20% but still grim memory loading issues at certain airports leading to stutters when panning and missing  addon scenery tiles at altitude. (I have the tiles correctly installed but sometimes one will just fail to load. Nervy if you are on descent! Pause the sim and it will eventually kick in. Not good.)

Edited July 13, 2021 by jarmstro

[mSparks 2,086]

1 minute ago, jarmstro said:

but still grim memory loading issues

Not sure if relevant, but I found while testing the cloudless ortho that zoom level makes a significant difference to load times

like 15 seconds for ZL16, and ~4 minutes for ZL17

I dont have any ZL17 anymore.

certain weather configurations also kill perf for no good reason, and the day before yesterday windows nuked someone in flight, dropping their cockpit view from 50fps to 10fps for no good reason (they dont have windows anymore - or at least are currently in the process of an ubuntu install)

[jarmstro 2,402]

3 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Not sure if relevant, but I found while testing the cloudless ortho that zoom level makes a significant difference to load times

like 15 seconds for ZL16, and ~4 minutes for ZL17

I dont have any ZL17 anymore.

certain weather configurations also kill perf for no good reason, and the day before yesterday windows nuked someone in flight, dropping their cockpit view from 50fps to 10fps for no good reason (they dont have windows anymore - or at least are currently in the process of an ubuntu install)

I'm talking about OrbX. No idea what the zoom level is? And it's still the same with Forkboys orthos and Spain UHD. Eventually the tile will load if I pause or descend to below 10000ft. Somethings not right. 

[mSparks 2,086]

13 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

UHD

target fps on a high end system = 25.....

Because 25fps is all they eye can see they said, and that's all the movies used to use.

Think I may have got an org ban arguing against that thinking to at some point or other, For comparing it with grandpas driving down the highway at 25mph iirc (ban didnt change my opinion, its still a good analogy)

Thankfully that thinking is nowhere near as prolific as it was two or three years ago. Back in 2017 30fps was all that was needed they said, and I was trolling for wanting more.

Edited July 13, 2021 by mSparks

[jarmstro 2,402]

52 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

Not so...

Austin has been aware of the criticism about XP's visuals. In a video years ago he joked about the XP looking like a "giant green" carpet. He would have also had to have known that the ocean looked like a blue quilted blanket.

In his vid review of X-Enviro, he stated that XP clouds are not that great (again joking about it)). Interestingly enough...he reviewed XE as if he did not know much about it...whereas the XE Dev had been trying to work with LR for a while to overcome some limitations (no 3PD Dev engagement).

If you look at enough older vids / interviews, you will see that Austin basically ignored the requests of the community...

All of the flight sim Devs were fine with stale development and letting the 3PD fill in the gaps...leaving users with bogged down Frankenstein Sims just to get a decent visual flight experience...

MSFS changed all of that...built a solid foundation...engaged with 3P Devs...built the store...interacts with the community...responds almost immediately to their concerns etc. XP12 has to be about more than just features, it is the attitude and commitment of the Dev that is making the difference these days.

IMO, Austin has always taken an arrogant (he knows best) posture towards the community. Whereas Asobo is reaching out, even asking for help from the community with building a sim for the community to enjoy. Huge difference...HUGE DIFFERENCE....

Well if I were Meyer and had seen the phrase 'unnecessary eye candy' posted for the millionth time on the Org I would think that eye candy was, well, umm.., unnecessary? 

Edited July 13, 2021 by jarmstro

[mSparks 2,086]

5 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Well if I were Meyer and had seen the phrase 'unnecessary eye candy' posted for the millionth time on the Org I would think it was, well, umm, unnecessary? 

You kinda agree with them tho or not?

[Murmur 3,941]

2 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

Nope..."I" was suggesting that LR should have followed FSW's "engagement" with the community back then

Exactly, and I was making fun of you taking the course of action of a failed product as an example, while calling another successful product a failure.

Message being, it takes much more than your suggestion of community engagement for a product to be successful.

EDIT: Oh, I might remember wrong, but when FSW was declared dead, I didnt' post anything joyous about it. On the contrary, there were several people gloating over it (not surprisingly, as far as I remember, many of them the same who today are MFS fans wishing for the demise of the competition).

Edited July 13, 2021 by Murmur

[FlyBaby 659]

54 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Exactly, and I was making fun of you taking the course of action of a failed product as an example, while calling another successful product a failure.

 

Not so..."engagement" (that course of action) has been taken now by Asobo, DTG trains, and DCS...all popular and successful sims.

I know trying to clean up "your" statement is taxing...just admit that you were taking a shot...gloating...over FSW's demise, or continue this charade.

54 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Message being, it takes much more than your suggestion of community engagement for a product to be successful.

It does take more...like sim features...but again, that wasn't the message you were trying to send. It was one sentence gloating over the FSW's demise. But I like how you are going out of your way to change the narrative...over and over again.

54 minutes ago, Murmur said:

EDIT: Oh, I might remember wrong, but when FSW was declared dead, I didnt' post anything joyous about it. On the contrary, there were several people gloating over it (not surprisingly, as far as I remember, many of them the same who today are MFS fans wishing for the demise of the competition).

Irrelevant...

I am not talking about what you did then, I am talking about the gloating you did in this thread...emoji and all. Placing the focus on others do nothing to distract from what you did in this thread...

EDIT: So much for ignoring me...seems like I have not only your attention...but your dedication to covering your tracks over one "gloating" statement. Carry on...

Edited July 13, 2021 by FlyBaby

[FlyBaby 659]

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

Well if I were Meyer and had seen the phrase 'unnecessary eye candy' posted for the millionth time on the Org I would think that eye candy was, well, umm.., unnecessary? 

His past vids show that he has marched to beat of his own drum regardless of feedback...maybe things will change.

However, the ORG can't be the blame for issues with XP when the Dev has been at this for over 26 years.

[mSparks 2,086]

25 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

the ORG can't be the blame for issues with XP when the Dev has been at this for over 26 years.

VS

30 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

Not so..."engagement" (that course of action) has been taken now by Asobo, DTG trains, and DCS...all popular and successful sims.

The org was the engagement.

Austin/LR can't take the blame for the org being toxic for XP engagement - but they can repair it, by:

1. Setting up a developer slack so we can use words developers use about computers without fear of interference by those whose only significant development experience is reading some PHP script their friend wrote, but think they are the oracle of all things flight sim.

2. Setting up feedback.x-plane.com to take relatively unbiased feedback from users, rather than excluding all those who've been banned from the org for transgressions like saying looks and performance and fixing bugs matter

3. Setting up an in game marketplace so developers can deal professionally with issues and plans rather than risking their entire business negotiating egos the size of a AN-225

Currently 2/3rds of the way there.

You can also tell the org got a rollocking by their sexy new logo:

Edited July 13, 2021 by mSparks

[Murmur 3,941]

EDITED.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Murmur

[jarmstro 2,402]

50 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

His past vids show that he has marched to beat of his own drum regardless of feedback...maybe things will change.

However, the ORG can't be the blame for issues with XP when the Dev has been at this for over 26 years.

In my opinion Meyer has been eulogised, by the Org and others, to the point where he can no longer see the wood for the trees. He should sell LR.

[Dozo 6]

4 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

No...the performance did not much improve much. Long explanations do not change that reality...

Well, my FPS has tripled in Vulkan as opposed to OpenGL. I understand that the numbers may differ from system to system and that not everyone might benefit as much. But you can't generalize and state that there wasn't much improvement. Vulkan made XP a much more enjoyable simulator for me.