On 7/15/2021 at 6:26 PM, Bobsk8 said:

You reminded me of a what a CFI said to me  many years ago. I was on my first cross country dual, flying from Vero beach to Ft Lauderdale, and it was bumpy. Then he woiuld ask me to look up something on the sectional, and while I did, he would take he controls

This reminds me of my cross-country training flights where I kept getting lost - one day my CFI said, "Where's the airport?" I looked and looked and said "I don't see it!"  He reached over, cupped his hand under my chin and pulled my head up.  "Now do you see it?," he said.  And there it was, plain as day, btwn us and the horizon.

He said "You're in an airplane.  You're up nice and high and can see a long, long way.  Stop looking straight down and look out ahead - you'll be amazed how easy it is (under the proper conditions) to see where you're going."

On 7/15/2021 at 1:21 PM, Bobsk8 said:

I never felt that MSFS felt like "  flying on rails" The planes I fly in MSFS feel like real aircraft to me, like I flew in real life. 

How do you ‘feel’ from a desktop pc? Mute point. 

4 hours ago, Aamir said:

While this made me chuckle a little bit - my name is Aamir and I own the company. We have nothing to do with Lefteris or FSL. 

Hello, Aamir,

Ok, no hard feelings.  I love fslabs a320 a lot and if your product looks remotely close I'll buy it in a heartbeat. 

 

Good luck with development and I'm looking forward to your release!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

On 7/15/2021 at 9:23 PM, NZ255 said:

Agreed. “Makes it seem like we’re not flying on rails”

True. MSFS does this better than any other sim.

Even in the beginning, when it was way too sensitive on the controls, you could already feel the benefit of those > 1000 surfaces interacting with actual air masses.

I do think however, that it's a little overexaggerated. And planes also do seem a little too unstable around their CG. Even big planes wobble too much.

Nonetheless, it is ridiculous to sometimes read on forums or reddit, that the MSFS model is not realistic. It's just not tuned perfectly, but it can do more than any other desktop sim.

10 hours ago, Doug47 said:

How do you ‘feel’ from a desktop pc? Mute point. 

You use your brain, Many airline pilots train on sims without a motion platform, they seem to do OK. 

Edited July 17, 20214 yr by Bobsk8

Quote

True. MSFS does this better than any other sim.

Even in the beginning, when it was way too sensitive on the controls, you could already feel the benefit of those > 1000 surfaces interacting with actual air masses.

I do think however, that it's a little overexaggerated. And planes also do seem a little too unstable around their CG. Even big planes wobble too much.

Nonetheless, it is ridiculous to sometimes read on forums or reddit, that the MSFS model is not realistic. It's just not tuned perfectly, but it can do more than any other desktop sim.

•  

Add-on aircrafts are more and more independent from the the sims. The whole complex avionics systems runs independently, the aerodynamics depends of weather with it's own complexity.

The question is, under which aerology this add-on will be running? From their own calculated (and independent) environment?  What influence from third party weather add-ons?

1 hour ago, fwwba01 said:

Add-on aircrafts are more and more independent from the the sims. The whole complex avionics systems runs independently, the aerodynamics depends of weather with it's own complexity.

The question is, under which aerology this add-on will be running? From their own calculated (and independent) environment?  What influence from third party weather add-ons?

They didn’t share much so far. But Aamir said they are using MSFS’ weather and flight modeling.

Source: 

 

Edited July 18, 20214 yr by ca_metal

On 7/17/2021 at 2:11 AM, tweekz said:

True. MSFS does this better than any other sim.

Even in the beginning, when it was way too sensitive on the controls, you could already feel the benefit of those > 1000 surfaces interacting with actual air masses.

I do think however, that it's a little overexaggerated. And planes also do seem a little too unstable around their CG. Even big planes wobble too much.

Nonetheless, it is ridiculous to sometimes read on forums or reddit, that the MSFS model is not realistic. It's just not tuned perfectly, but it can do more than any other desktop sim.

An 11,500 hour pilot on another thread said it’s not that realistic. How many hours do you have?

2 hours ago, ca_metal said:

They didn’t share much so far. But Aamir said they are using MSFS’ weather and flight modeling.

Concerning the flight modelling I think they will rely on their own, but an aircraft is not flying through still air (even in early morning).

So through which weather this aircraft will fly? Fenix, MSFS, third party, or a mix of these? 

41 minutes ago, fwwba01 said:

Concerning the flight modelling I think they will rely on their own, but an aircraft is not flying through still air (even in early morning).

So through which weather this aircraft will fly? Fenix, MSFS, third party, or a mix of these? 

Quoting Aamir:

Quote

To discuss a couple of other points you mentioned - this is not two simulators integrated with one another. That would be a very messy, convoluted, solution. We use MSFS's weather, and flight modelling - and use the SDK as intended for compliance.

It seems to me they use MSFS' weather and flight modelling.

Edited July 18, 20214 yr by ca_metal

4 hours ago, Doug47 said:

An 11,500 hour pilot on another thread said it’s not that realistic. How many hours do you have?

Regardless of how many hours both he and this mystery 11,500 hour pilot have or have not, it's important to realise this would still be just the differing opinions of two people.

Personally, I think MSFS is an improvement in creating the impression of flight in comparison to most other flight sims, and yes whilst that is just my opinion, my own opinion is the one which matters to me and the same is true for most everyone else. It's possibly worth pointing out too, that I know quite a few pilots with more hours than I have myself, yet some of them I wouldn't dream of getting into an aeroplane with. 🤣

I'm in no way suggesting that the guy with a ton of hours has an opinion which isn't worth listening to, or that he isn't a superb pilot for all I know, but I'm also aware that if a rotten pilot has one thousand hours, then that pilot has one thousand hours experience of being a rotten pilot! By way of example, I'll tell you something in this vein which occurred literally today:

I'm currently doing all my recertifications for the ramp at EGCC, and today that was headsetting, so I was of course watching others do it whilst on the ramp. In doing that I saw, a guy remove the safety chock before disconnecting the headset and closing the access cover, I saw another give the wave off whilst the tug was still in front of the engine, and I saw another guy signal the tug to commence the push whilst the nose chocks were still on the aeroplane. All three of these people were certified to do headsetting. Meanwhile, I was doing it all properly, including a practice one on an Embraer 145 with me having no headset at all, using hand signals only as part of the certification.

As if this observation of others wasn't bad enough, the last aeroplane I worked on today - a Vueling A320 - taxied onto stand six at EGCC with the refuelling door not latched, so it swung open when the thing came to a halt; someone where that thing departed from, i.e. another allegedly qualified headset person, had presumably done a walkaround and not checked that.

The point here is that, just because you have a licence, it doesn't mean you aren't a terrible driver and it doesn't make you an expert on cars, or their handling, or road conditions either. You could be, but the only way to tell is to actually have a drive around with that person, or to watch them doing it. 🙂

Edited July 19, 20214 yr by Chock

4 hours ago, Doug47 said:

An 11,500 hour pilot on another thread said it’s not that realistic.

It all depends on how the flight model of X or Y aircraft is coded and by who. This is true for all flight simulators (p3d, xp, msfs or whatever). Tell the 11.5k hour pilot to fly the pmdg dc-6 in msfs 2020 for an hour and then debate about how realistic or unrealistic its flight model is with the developer Robert Randazzo who has approximately four times more hours than your 11.5k hour pilot and literally owns and flies a dc-3 himself. Now tell him to fly for an hour JustFlight's Piper Arrow for MSFS 2020 and he'll see there's absolutely no adverse yaw when banking left or right, almost as if the turn co-ordinator ball is inop. You see my point?

Similarly, tell the 11.5k hour pilot to fly a default prop GA aircraft that comes with p3d and then the payware A2A Piper Comanche for p3d. The difference in quality, maturity and accuracy between these two aircraft's flight model will be day and night. It all depends on who programmed the flight model and how accurately. The base flight sim software is just a sandbox for developers to use whichever way they feel like it. 

I can fly a pig in xp11 [ Flying Pig 2018 - Custom Designs - X-Plane.Org Forum ], and you can fly a doughnut in msfs 2020 [ Flying Donut » Microsoft Flight Simulator ]. Now ask your 11.5k hour pilot to tell you which sim's flight model is more realistic.

Edited July 19, 20214 yr by EvidencePlz

3 hours ago, Chock said:

Personally, I think MSFS is an improvement in creating the impression of flight in comparison to most other flight sims, and yes whilst that is just my opinion, my own opinion is the one which matters to me and the same is true for most everyone else.

Hear hear.

A lot of sim-bashing (in any direction) seems to basically be saying "you shouldn't be satisfied with your experience of this sim because it isn't modeling this feature well". 

10 hours ago, Chock said:

It's possibly worth pointing out too, that I know quite a few pilots with more hours than I have myself, yet some of them I wouldn't dream of getting into an aeroplane with. 🤣

When I watch some "air disaster" episodes on Youtube to go sleeping, it is ridiculous how often I see captains with thousands of hours of experience (on type) make simple yet fatal mistakes that you learn about in your first lessons in flight school. Like stalling the plane.

 

15 hours ago, Doug47 said:

An 11,500 hour pilot on another thread said it’s not that realistic. How many hours do you have?

How many hours do you have ? and to you make judgments on just one person’s opinion?