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Isaiah53six

Microsoft/Asobo proved they're pandering to console users

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2 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

I believe they can please everybody if they want, they just have to set the graphics sliders differently and add more "advanced" options to exclude some of the tricks that brought this performance increase.

Now the sim is even too fast for high end PCs: I get 60-70 fps over NYC and up to 95 fps inside the FWB A320 cockpit, all at Ultra settings.

It would be useful to sacrifice 10-20 fps for a better image quality and less pop-in. 

SCALABILITY is a must for a PC game, and this was born as a PC game after all.

Perfectly stated, and just to add to this, if it were just the cloud issues that were popping up, I probably wouldn't say anything. It appears they are essentially forcing us to re-compile / redo a lot of our work (again), this is great if your a full-time developer, but this does not bode well for the freeware community. They need to take a step back, a deep breath, and slow these updates down. They need to put more automation into LOD and other stuff, as much as they possibly can within reason, instead of trying to keep re-engineering the engine itself, which is what they seem focused on.

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Just now, HiFlyer said:

Someone interested in VR (for instance) might have another opinion.

Why? As long as you have a slider to move to the left and a box to untick, you are happy with any configuration.

Unless people want to see "Ultra" on the screen just for the sake of it... but remember that your willy does not become longer if you use a defective ruler 🙂

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2 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Someone interested in VR (for instance) might have another opinion.

Unstandard unconventional rush to hit the release date, FRAGILE AGILE is their development technique. That's great if you are adding new features in a spreadsheet they don't break old versions, that's not so great if you keep breaking addons faster than people can update them.

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Just now, HiFlyer said:

Someone interested in VR (for instance) might have another opinion.

From the cloud thread :

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/provide-an-option-to-restore-the-old-ultra-clouds/430593/3

Quote

In VR the clouds on Ultra are exactly the same as they were on Medium in SU4 and before, they are massively downgraded all for the golden prize of a Performance Increase.

Allow us, the PC users, to decide whether we want Xbox friendly clouds OR the clouds that made this Sim look great and was part of such a good talking point.

Options would be a good thing.

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1 minute ago, MrFuzzy said:

Why? As long as you have a slider to move to the left and a box to untick, you are happy with any configuration.

Unless people want to see "Ultra" on the screen just for the sake of it... but remember that your willy does not become longer if you use a defective ruler 🙂

Because to date, probably for the majority of people, especially those with lower spec machine, VR has been right on the cusp of being unusable because of the frame rates. To them, this additional speed is likely going to be a godsend, which has nothing to do with ultra or willies.


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The solution is rather simple anyhow, all they have to do is what many games already do, they query your hardware and don't even run an automated FPS check, they just know that a certain config can likely handle ULTRA, etc... If you raise settings too high, you get a warning. This is what RDR 2 does for instance if you try to use too high of settings on a low spec machine.

There is no reason to start forcing downgrades of graphics, only in the FS community would people defend such a strange and controversial technique.

Instead, they need to give you a BIG NASTY RED popup box that says "Dont do it friend"...

Edited by Alpine Scenery
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Just now, HiFlyer said:

Because to date, probably for the majority of people, especially those with lower spec machine, VR has been right on the cusp of being unusable because of the frame rates. To them, this additional speed is likely going to be a godsend, which has nothing to do with ultra or willies.

How is having 2 paths that are separate affect each other, I don't understand your logic. They are separate paths.


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13 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Because to date, probably for the majority of people, especially those with lower spec machine, VR has been right on the cusp of being unusable because of the frame rates. To them, this additional speed is likely going to be a godsend, which has nothing to do with ultra or willies.

I use VR and for one I would much prefer lower frame rates with better visual quality of SU4, than the extra 10fps (average) and much lower visual quality (clouds, washed out colours, poor scenery lods etc) of what SU5 introduced.

Overall VR has taken a massive step backwards and it wasn't exactly moving forwards in the first place, it's a regression which has degraded the experience for me.

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Asobo had to push the XBOX release out the door and the only way to do that was to kill the graphics, resulting in popping of scenery, water texture, terrain blurriness/popping etc. I still don't get how the stuff up of the coloration saturation got in there - I can hardly see the numbers on the runway at CYVR (FSimStudios), as the runway is basically white now.

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4 minutes ago, Mark_A said:

Asobo had to push the XBOX release out the door and the only way to do that was to kill the graphics, resulting in popping of scenery, water texture, terrain blurriness/popping etc. I still don't get how the stuff up of the coloration saturation got in there - I can hardly see the numbers on the runway at CYVR (FSimStudios), as the runway is basically white now.

They already have 2 separate code bases or at least partially separate code bases for the XBOX and PC version. This is evident in the fact that the XBOX LOD culling was not forced onto the PC version for custom buildings (yet). So they didn't mod the code just for the XBOX, they used SOME of the same optimization teams for both separate sets of code. Their thinking was most likely, hey if we can speed up the XBOX version that much, we can do the same to the PC version and gain extra market share of people on lower spec PC. That is the way the thinking works at gaming companies, but sometimes they go too far with the changes, as in this case.

 

Edited by Alpine Scenery

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5 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Instead, they need to give you a BIG NASTY RED popup box that says "Dont do it friend"...

Well, barring unknown factors, I believe you or I or anyone actually, is perfectly free to suggest that option to them at any time, at which point they will make a decision, yay or nay, depending on their own needs and plans. For my part, I would "vote" against it.

7 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

How is having 2 paths that are separate affect each other, I don't understand your logic. They are separate paths.

If you look on youtube, one place where the enhanced FPS (however its done) is causing great excitement is on the various VR channels. I would suspect quite a few people, would keenly feel the loss of the new smoothness, and might think slight popping and "different" clouds a fair trade.

As for whether lods become automatic or not, it's not really something decided at the consumer level, so I don't have a strong opinion. Thats between the third parties and Asobo/Microsoft.

I just point out that for some of us, the degradation in graphics is either not as prevalent, or completely unnoticeable for all intents and purposes.

But for those who think it's all intolerable.....

Well..... if I was for some reason trying to influence Asobo... I would be over at their forum.

And if I was someone with influence with Asobo...... I would be over at their forum.


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
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15 minutes ago, MarcG said:

I use VR and for one I would much prefer lower frame rates with better visual quality of SU4, than the extra 10fps (average) and much lower visual quality (clouds, washed out colours, poor scenery lods etc) of what SU5 introduced.

We could always do a poll 🙃

But you should know about polls and Avsim.......


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

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They did it to increase sales and gain lower spec PC users (and VR), it's pretty much a given. Once they see the discontent it caused the other users, hopefully will they rethink their current path and keep the two issues as separate and distinct as possible.

Edited by Alpine Scenery

AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

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Contrary to some posters above, I think I am entitled to speak as the owner of a weak computer because I have one. 😄

Pre-SU5, my machine was giving me a reasonably good experience, I said it many times giving credit to Asobo for this, and the tradeoff thing of SU5 is not welcome because I get a negligible boost in performance for a reduction of visual quality, an apparent continuous trend in the development of this sim.

The best is sometimes the worst enemy of the good... 
 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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