MSFS has never been RELIABLE

[sd_flyer 6,040]

2 hours ago, Doug47 said:

@Chock,

 

Comw on guys.  This is getting embarrassing. The flight dynamics in the sim…sorry…game, must be horrifically bad for one to be able to ‘fly’ using a x-box controller. Absurd. 

I'm not sure how you measure flight dynamic or what kind of RL flying experience you have, but MSFS flight dynamic is actually good. I can tell from standpoint of airplane I flew RL like Cherokee, Bonanza, Mooney, Cessna and etc that MSFS actually has pretty impressive FM and in some aspect even superior to other sims.

Also I know people like to use term "game" when they don't like something and "sim" otherwise. Truth is all sims you ever played in your life are "games". As said many times before if you  can't log your "sim" hours toward RL proficiency or training it's game. And it really doesn't matter how developer marketing it.

[DD_Arthur 1,048]

1 hour ago, Doug47 said:

No wonder some say MSFS is nothing more then an arcade game for the gamers. Sad times for the true simulator users here. 

Laughable.

All these hand wringing threads are much more a comment on the human condition than the state of this game.

[EvidencePlz 276]

4 hours ago, TASCHMANN said:

For those who remain optimistic, I have a question:  How is it possible to create a full featured sim where the planes can be controlled with an Xbox controller?

 

Why do Airbus offer pilots side-sticks that basically and technically operate like video-game joysticks? (read up on fly-by-wire).

What does a RC aircraft's controller look like?

How could Boston Dynamics' Spot robot be controlled with a Xbox controller?  
https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot
https://dev.bostondynamics.com/python/examples/xbox_controller/readme

Why are surgeons using Xbox controller? The surprising uses of games controllers - BBC Future

 

[fppilot 4,360]

19 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Laughable.

All these hand wringing threads are much more a comment on the human condition than the state of this game.

And all inclusive words like "never" are never correct.  LOL

[Isaiah53six 134]

3 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

FSX Too!

And Aerofly.

And War Thunder, And IL2, and DCS and........

doesn't mean it's a good thing for those who are looking for a realistic flight sim experience or training.

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

2 hours ago, Doug47 said:

You’re missing the point.  They want it to run on x box for the games. And apply the same poor arcade style flight dynamics to both. 

Some yokes don’t even cut it, as far as ‘feeling’ the same. So I’m not sure how a x box controller with its baby joysticks and push buttons can. 
 

No wonder some say MSFS is nothing more then an arcade game for the gamers. Sad times for the true simulator users here. 
 

Your line of reasoning makes no sense.  The type of input device you use has absolutely no bearing on the flight model.  An xbox controller is nothing more than a pair of joysticks, a few differential triggers and some buttons.  The software itself doesn’t care if the input data is coming from a yoke, a HOTAS joystick, or a game controller.  You could just as easily set up an Xbox controlller to P3D, Xplane, or DCS.   Does that by default make them “toy plane games” too?

The fact that SU5 has presets for a controller does NOT require that a simplification of the flight model must follow.  It’s still the same model as before - which i still personally find is a much better match to the feel I get in a real plane than the older legacy sims.  PMDG’s DC6 is still one of the best planes available on any platform at the moment and that has not changed because there is an OPTION to try and fly it with a controller instead of a yoke.

Part of me thinks that there are some in this hobby who simply can’t stand that it has become accessible to people who might not want to take the full plunge in a single step (VATSIM, precision flight controls, home cockpit, full cold and dark procedures to the letter of the POH).  It’s abhorrent that there might be optional aids and assists to help someone get started.  Having those in MSFS does NOT dumb it down. You still have the option to remove them all and use it as hardcore as you like.  It’s all there and there’s a lot more coming before the end of the year.

Change is hard for many, but it’s here and it’s time to get used it.

[EvidencePlz 276]

17 minutes ago, Isaiah53six said:

doesn't mean it's a good thing for those who are looking for a realistic flight sim experience or training.

true but what's your point? Microsoft is not preventing anyone from using realistic yokes, joysticks and rudder pedals with xbox msfs
 

Take to the Skies with These Official Microsoft Flight Sim Accessories - Xbox Wire

Edited July 29, 2021 by EvidencePlz

[OneOfMany 314]

5 minutes ago, EvidencePlz said:

doesn't mean it's a good thing for those who are looking for a realistic flight sim experience or training.

And if isn't your solution for realistic flight Sim experience or training, then move on to something that is better! What is so difficult in making that decision? If something is better, play it. 

Edit. Quote was from Isaiah, not evidencplz

Edited July 29, 2021 by OneOfMany
Wrong attribute on quote

[HiFlyer 9,358]

2 minutes ago, Isaiah53six said:

doesn't mean it's a good thing for those who are looking for a realistic flight sim experience or training.

As far as I'm aware, joysticks Joy pads and excetera were used for years before more sophisticated controllers became common. Are you suggesting somehow that all those users were in some way illegitimate?

What do you say to somebody who might call your use of a simulator unrealistic because it's not a full-motion level D?

Where does the delegitimization end?

[liamp51 541]

25 minutes ago, EvidencePlz said:

true but what's your point? Microsoft is not preventing anyone from using realistic yokes, joysticks and rudder pedals with xbox msfs
 

Take to the Skies with These Official Microsoft Flight Sim Accessories - Xbox Wire

He has no point. He's just a troll. Another user on my ignore list...

[Drumcode 1,893]

What's up with the carriage return for every sentence?

[Garys 209]

4 hours ago, Chock said:

 

And have you been in an Airbus? The amount of throw on the sidestick controllers is virtually zero; they operate off pressure rather than throw, so they have even less movement than a joypad stick and you have to use your left hand on the stick too when in the P1 seat, yet we don't see A320s crashing all the time, which is not something you can say about the B737 MAX with its traditional yoke controllers.  

 

Just can't help yourself hey Chock. Leveling off @ 94% N1 or landing at Karachi with the gear up will end up with the same result but hey, you keep on beating that horse.

[MrFuzzy 2,118]

7 hours ago, TASCHMANN said:

For those who remain optimistic, I have a question:  How is it possible to create a full featured sim where the planes can be controlled with an Xbox controller?

Every FS on the market allows to control the AC with an XBox controller. We are talking about 100 $ "simulators" that need to sell in big numbers. 

If MS made a hardcore simulator playable only with 500 € of cumbersome equipment, only a few people would buy it.

I am disappointed about the evolution of the sim in the last year too, but for different reasons:

- Still DX11 with ugly shadows and reflections

- Graphics has been downgraded little by little, with the final cut on the 27th with XBox release. This would be OK and expected if not for the biggest issue at the moment:

- LACK OF SCALABILITY: on high end hardware you are not given the possibility to use the huge overhead at your disposal to increase graphics quality, LOD, number of objects, pre-loading of a specified radius of terrain in order to avoid stuttering and popping in. Instead, you are stuck with 4 GB of RAM occupied, 7-8 GB of VRAM, 16 CPU threads barely moving, 80-90 useless fps.

THIS is the major problem: there is only one version of MSFS now, and it's tailored for XBox.

Let's hope DX12 will introduce at least ray tracing and reduce the pop-in.

[Bigsby 64]

I love this sim but it is absolutely frustrating at times.The sad thing is that someday someway they will patch it just right 🙂Well... until the next patch☹️

 

[Dominique_K 10,138]

8 hours ago, TASCHMANN said:

We have seen this so many times before...the hype campaign about the "huge performance enhancement” which is just another in the long line of  graphics downgrades that try to present that illusion.

We have seen the broken features which we are advised simply not to use e.g. AI traffic, multiplayer.

We are advised which files to dig out and edit so that our changes in settings will actually be saved.

We are told that for best results while flying, try  not to look too quickly to the left or right so as to accommodate the shortcuts that were taken to squeeze out a few more fps (in some cases)

If the OP is a little excessive in his formulation and the controller issue a strawman argument IMO, what I quote has a ring of thruth.

For a year now, the basic graphic features has known continuous degradation, except for the added POI of the regional addons. All the more incomprehensible that the sim was quite optimized and working on weak computers. 

The OP says unreliable, I would say unethical. It is unethical to sell something with enormous hype about its graphics and then force users downgrading it with mandatory updates.MS considers what they sold us as theirs and not ours. 

I am not happy to see the DC6 cockpit downgraded because some Asobo engineer who has presumably never simmed in his life, thinks that lower quality textures are the way to go to get FPS. I am not happy to have to tweak the sim not to have a bleached out external view through the cockpit. I am not happy that the cockpit panning is not smooth anymore. I am not happy to see on the lateral view the watermask appears progressively by rectangle on a low profile takeoff. etc. I do not see a major fluidity improvement so far in my simming. I do not see long due major improvements : replay, weather, etc.

MFS firmly stays on my computer as my only sim because it caters to one of my major need, a convincing landscape for most of the planet and three reasonably good aircraft. But to say that SU5 is the best thing since the flying toasters, nope.

Oh yes, also, I see a lot of fellow respectable simmers happy with this update and I give them credit. I believe that expectations and experience are different from one another.