X-Plane Next Generation Forestry Preview

[Gulfstream 416]

8 hours ago, strider1 said:

Austin does not believe in outsourcing! Austin would be a good candidate for President if did not believe in the Global Warming conspiracy. 

But in a realistic world, given the absolutely incredible complexity increase of computers and thus things like flight simulators since X-Plane began, something has to change.  

If you want fancy trees out to the horizon, you can either grab a license from speedtree or you can hire the same number of engineers as them, and spend the same number of years and cash and try to replicate the thing they already created and that every other major company is licensing.

I'm thinking that it's likely that a lot of these existing solutions might be "way too good" for what a flight simulator like X-Plane might need.  We don't need gnarled-oak next to fir trees with proper PBR, randomization, and wind reactions.

We may just need 50,000 somewhat basic 3D trees.  That can be handled in-house.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Gulfstream

[Gary1124 181]

1 hour ago, Gulfstream said:

But in a realistic world, given the absolutely incredible complexity increase of computers and thus things like flight simulators since X-Plane began, something has to change.  

If you want fancy trees out to the horizon, you can either grab a license from speedtree or you can hire the same number of engineers as them, and spend the same number of years and cash and try to replicate the thing they already created and that every other major company is licensing.

I'm thinking that it's likely that a lot of these existing solutions might be "way too good" for what a flight simulator like X-Plane might need.  We don't need gnarled-oak next to fir trees with proper PBR, randomization, and wind reactions.

We may just need 50,000 somewhat basic 3D trees.  That can be handled in-house.

Honestly, I never really paid close attention to trees in a sim anymore that I would in a real plane or driving on the road. I'm operating a vehicle of one sort or other and focused on that. Not sight seeing. 

Correct terrain

Correct navaids

Realistic weather.

Accurate vector details

All cities and towns with accurate footprint and street grid.

Accurate non mechanical ATC.

AI flying real world style.

Airports with correct operation and layout.

Study level aircraft with correct handling and complete instrumentation and engine behavior.

Those are the things that make an immersive sim. Things particularly relating to aircraft operation.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Gary1124

[Humpty 751]

53 minutes ago, Gary1124 said:

Honestly, I never really paid close attention to trees in a sim anymore that I would in a real plane or driving on the road. I'm operating a vehicle of one sort or other and focused on that. Not sight seeing. 

Correct terrain

Correct navaids

Realistic weather.

Accurate vector details

All cities and towns with accurate footprint and street grid.

Accurate non mechanical ATC.

AI flying real world style.

Airports with correct operation and layout.

Study level aircraft with correct handling and complete instrumentation and engine behavior.

Those are the things that make an immersive sim. Things particularly relating to aircraft operation.

 

Yeah who wants to see trees swaying in the wind , but it matters for a great Heli pilot like me 

it would be very different trying to land now in between the swaying trees. I am sure all who do land between the cardboard cut-outs will surely lose one of the rotors.  Yeah they need to be Collidable 

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

1 hour ago, Humpty said:

Yeah who wants to see trees swaying in the wind , but it matters for a great Heli pilot like me 

it would be very different trying to land now in between the swaying trees. I am sure all who do land between the cardboard cut-outs will surely lose one of the rotors.  Yeah they need to be Collidable 

For me, those swaying in the wind branches and bows, as I taxi from or to the active, would make all the difference to impart that I am actually there, and not in a sim.  Sure, you won't see them in action at altitude. But--->you sure will as you move about that expensive 3rdP airport you invested in.  That real life immersion to and from the active is what's on my plate for consumption! 🙂

[HiFlyer 9,343]

On 7/30/2021 at 1:21 AM, strider1 said:

We need some forest fires in XP12! Aerial firefighting would be a fun activity!

I suggested that in other sims from time to time, whereupon even the mods here interjected to say it was a sick concept. 🙄

Good luck.

[Humpty 751]

1 hour ago, Sesquashtoo said:

For me, those swaying in the wind branches and bows, as I taxi from or to the active, would make all the difference to impart that I am actually there, and not in a sim.  Sure, you won't see them in action at altitude. But--->you sure will as you move about that expensive 3rdP airport you invested in.  That real life immersion to and from the active is what's on my plate for consumption! 🙂

Hi Mitch long time !

It definitely will make it more immersive no doubt

Edited August 2, 2021 by Humpty

[Gulfstream 416]

Good dev blog update on this. 

Nicely describes the balance that has to be maintained ensuring reasonable backwards compatibility while trying to move everything forward.

https://developer.x-plane.com/2021/08/next-generation-trees-and-opengl/

Edited August 2, 2021 by Gulfstream
Update link.

[mSparks 2,086]

23 hours ago, Gulfstream said:

As a software engineer I'm quite confused over this fret regarding large amounts of 3D trees.  Graphics cards can easily handle this, even smaller cards.

large is one thing - global scale is something else entirely.

23 hours ago, Gulfstream said:

You'll note with speedtree, almost a gold-standard in this regard

while it might have been, it clearly wont be for very long.

23 hours ago, Gulfstream said:

Then there is trueSKY.

There would already be at least one Trusky mod for XP if their SDK wasn't broken and they had something resembling support.

[strider1 575]

Double post, delete.

Edited August 3, 2021 by strider1

[strider1 575]

1 minute ago, strider1 said:

Truth and Art Tv......

mSparks

[strider1 575]

14 hours ago, Gulfstream said:

But in a realistic world, given the absolutely incredible complexity increase of computers and thus things like flight simulators since X-Plane began, something has to change.  

If you want fancy trees out to the horizon, you can either grab a license from speedtree or you can hire the same number of engineers as them, and spend the same number of years and cash and try to replicate the thing they already created and that every other major company is licensing.

I'm thinking that it's likely that a lot of these existing solutions might be "way too good" for what a flight simulator like X-Plane might need.  We don't need gnarled-oak next to fir trees with proper PBR, randomization, and wind reactions.

We may just need 50,000 somewhat basic 3D trees.  That can be handled in-house.

It's job security, unions and governments around the world do it all the time. On the opposite end global Corporations shop for the cheapest labor they can find. It's a race to the bottom with most locals populations getting the short end of the stick.

[strider1 575]

10 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

I suggested that in other sims from time to time, whereupon even the mods here interjected to say it was a sick concept. 🙄

Good luck.

I am bored of Flying VFR from point A to B, even with MSFS great scenery. I do enjoy IFR but Xplane weather leaves a lot to desire and MSFS avionics are to buggy. 

[Gary1124 181]

6 minutes ago, strider1 said:

I am bored of Flying VFR from point A to B, even with MSFS great scenery. I do enjoy IFR but Xplane weather leaves a lot to desire and MSFS avionics are to buggy. 

I Love XP flight dynamics and aircraft modeling. I Love the variety of aircraft types possible. I Love how well extreme aircraft like HABU and the X-15 can operate even. But, weather, environment, ATC etc. go to 64 bit P3D when operating Study level aircraft models over a heavily UTX/FTX modified world. Not a reproduction of real like MSFS but convincing enough when you are focused on flying and the other decent elements. I hope XP 12 can at least look like global Orbx with LC and have weather like P3D 5.2 and ATC like PF3 or VOX, or P2ATC.

[strider1 575]

43 minutes ago, Gary1124 said:

I I hope XP 12 can at least look like global Orbx with LC and have weather like P3D 5.2 and ATC like PF3 or VOX, or P2ATC.

We can only hope! I tired PD3 a few times and was not feeling the default scenery or AC, and I did not want to spend another small fortune on more addons like I did in FSX. 

[BostonJeremy77 519]

13 hours ago, strider1 said:

We can only hope! I tired PD3 a few times and was not feeling the default scenery or AC, and I did not want to spend another small fortune on more addons like I did in FSX. 

Ah! There is only ONE you need to get a taste of the difference... Orbx Global Base. It's a HUGE improvement over default. Their trees are a second most important improvement. After that I purchased everything Global Range because that literally made P3D very enjoyable to look at.