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Dominique_K

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2 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Xbox is  good option until NVIDIA and AMD fix this GPU shortage, it's kind of insane to be honest. I have no bad feelings towards XBOX or XBOX users, I just wish Asobo would have given the PC version a bit more cuddly wuddly before throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Xbox is decent but it's locked other than any future XBOX they release with beefed up hardware, so PC advances a lot faster. So in a few years it could be a totally different story.

 

Absolutely. But for some users to say that, because they have launched it on Xbox, the graphics have been made to look like "game" graphics, as if there really is some fundamental difference in console vs PC graphics (as you know, there isn't at all, especially right at this moment in time for this particular console) -- well, it's ridiculous.

 

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16 minutes ago, March Hare said:

Absolutely. But for some users to say that, because they have launched it on Xbox, the graphics have been made to look like "game" graphics, as if there really is some fundamental difference in console vs PC graphics (as you know, there isn't at all, especially right at this moment in time for this particular console) -- well, it's ridiculous.

I see your point and it makes sense logically or when thinking like a programmer. Though a lot of the people involved in these projects are business and marketing people, and so things tend to get distorted and cloudy when it comes to separation or how much you have to optimize something. Like you could have some business guy high up with influence cause the development team to make some weird decisions, because no-one is going to question Bob who is best friends with the CEO kind of thing. It's happened to me so much in my career. I have literally been forced in some jobs to do the opposite of what I really should be doing.

Right now at a job at work, I have a client that has a chrome extension using 5 digit repeating characters as the password, and no I'm not going to give you his IP address 🙂

I cannot say anything because of the level of importance of the position the guy holds.

I don't know much about XBOX, but yes I'd assume it could run MSFS SU 4 as good as many PC's could.

 

Edited by Alpine Scenery

AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

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3 hours ago, Greazer said:

Worked started back in 2016.

Internal development work, perhaps. But the fact remains that Vulkan was not released until 9th Sept 2020, and for the majority of users was stable within a few weeks..... rather than the "two years to get it working" that someone else quoted, that I was responding too. 

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8 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

I see your point and it makes sense logically or when thinking like a programmer. Though a lot of the people involved in these projects are business and marketing people, and so things tend to get distorted and cloudy when it comes to separation or how much you have to optimize something. Like you could have some business guy high up with influence cause the development team to make some weird decisions, because no-one is going to question Bob who is best friends with the CEO kind of thing. It's happened to me so much in my career, that I don't even want to talk about it.

I have literally been forced in several jobs to do shoddy work because someone demanded shoddy work.

Right now at a job at work, I have a client that has a chrome extension using 5 digit repeating characters as the password, and no I'm not going to give you his IP address 🙂

I cannot say anything because of the level of importance of the position the guy holds.

I don't know much about XBOX, but yes I'd assume it could run MSFS SU 4 as good as many PC's could.

 

Yes. My brother's a games developer. He and the team had to deal with a publisher insisting they have to use the same fidelity of assets converting a PC/PS4 game to Switch. Well it obviously didn't work very well, but the publisher's execs didn't like the idea of reducing poly counts in the characters, for some weird reason.

He also once rewrote and optimised Sony's PlayStation libraries (the original PS) and had a Lego game working better -- but his code was ditched because they had to stick with Sony's original code, just because (nothing to do with Sony; a manager at the studio's decision).

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2 minutes ago, March Hare said:

Yes. My brother's a games developer. He and the team had to deal with a publisher insisting they have to use the same fidelity of assets converting a PC/PS4 game to Switch. Well it obviously didn't work very well, but the publisher's execs didn't like the idea of reducing poly counts in the characters, for some weird reason.

He also once rewrote and optimised Sony's PlayStation libraries (the original PS) and had a Lego game working better -- but his code was ditched because they had to stick with Sony's original code, just because (nothing to do with Sony; a manager at the studio's decision).

Yah, I have a billion similar stories. It's why I was trying to buy a campground to do something different, instead of continuing to develop stuff, but I have a fear of large animals in the dark.

Edited by Alpine Scenery
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25 minutes ago, Chlikachlika said:

My next purchase will be Battlefield 2042, my enemy Asobo Microsoft !

+1 for the game, and with a PS5 for me (well if I can find one LOL)


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43 minutes ago, wim123 said:

you really could have known this if only you had looked at the roadmap, it was there.

this sim wont be ever without issues, i am betting, they get solved, others are created, etc etc.

a bit like eso(elder scrolls online) and there too many ppl complaining, but for most its okish

Why as a customer should I go dig into forums and look at "roadmaps"?

No, I expect a working product for my money, period.  Microsoft has not delivered.  And given that SU5 is what we get a YEAR into this mess, I see no indication they will ever deliver. 

1 hour ago, blueshark747 said:

Its certainly was an alpha we paid into!
We were given time window to either stay on the MSFS rollercoaster or get off and refund on both distribution platforms. We have chosen to stay. That was your decision with this product!

 

What a load of apologist bull-dung.  Yeah, they maybe offered some refunds for a week or so right after release.  What about the people who are buying it now only to realize it's a flaming pile of junk?

Edited by marsman2020
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3 hours ago, blueshark747 said:

Seems like some of you really need to find a new sim. SU6 will drop and we will test it and report issues and bugs just as the past updates. Will it be inconvenient and will things be broken? Well most likely yes! Will bugs and issues be fixed certainly but slowly? Well most likely yes! The first two or three years of trial and error development for this sim should be expected by now by consumers. Either come along for the emotional rollercoaster ride or hop off and go find something else to fly for the next couple of years. Everyone wants improvements but no one wants to get pushed out of the comfort zone of a past stable update to welcome a new update that will need fixes and feedback, and no you can’t have your SU4 build back! It’s gone forever..get over it or find another sim to enjoy!

Believe it or not, we don't need your advice on what flight simulator to use. Funny, I know, but your orders have zero value for us.

For the sake of precision, the rollercoaster effect is acceptable if you release a product as a pre-release, obviously at a reduced price.

If you sell a product as finished, and promise continuous upgrades in time, and also promise to listen to the community, then, not surprisingly, those who buy the product tend to, go figure, expect exactly what you announced.

So, those people become quite nervous when each and every update breaks stuff, downgrades the general quality, introduces new bugs, multiplies ctd's and so on.

If you tell us on which planet this is acceptable, I will gladly avoid to visit there.

Thank you

Andrea

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7 minutes ago, ADamiani said:

If you sell a product as finished

If you recall that will happen in what - 9 years now?   We can post here but we should include a bit of truth don't you think?

Regards

bs

 

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7 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

It will be a horror story, moving to DX12 when they can't even fix the SU5 bugs. 

Given that SU5 just released I'd say that statement is hugely premature.  

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2 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

Why as a customer should I go dig into forums and look at "roadmaps"?

No, I expect a working product for my money, period.  Microsoft has not delivered.  And given that SU5 is what we get a YEAR into this mess, I see no indication they will ever deliver. 

What a load of apologist bull-dung.  Yeah, they maybe offered some refunds for a week or so right after release.  What about the people who are buying it now only to realize it's a flaming pile of junk?

aha seems you rather stay word not allowed then, well have fun.

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2 hours ago, JYW said:

Internal development work, perhaps. But the fact remains that Vulkan was not released until 9th Sept 2020, and for the majority of users was stable within a few weeks..... rather than the "two years to get it working" that someone else quoted, that I was responding too. 

Released officially, yes.  However to be fair Vulkan was in development for a long time prior to that, tested in house then in private then public beta.  You can review the dev blog posts to see that if they are still up.  The ups and downs of which are not dissimilar to those experienced here albeit with a less complex product in the works (sorry Laminar, loved you for years but...).  And on release to the public (for beta) after the private beta it was not stable, looked terrible on some rigs, etc.  Laminar has a history of more polished releases but let's be honest, they are just as guilty as the next.  Not to say Asobo / MS released this when it was ready, don't infer that;  that would require some tall boots to wade through.  

  As a hobbyist developer I've learned the hard way (even with just me working on projects) the more lines of code the more time it takes to nail down bugs and other unexpected side effects of optimization (spent the last 2 days doing this for an older personal project) or new feature additions.  These are complex programs the likes of which I can only imagine from a dev perspective and we are all but human, developers and users alike.  The vitriol and intolerance here and at the official forums is just not constructive.  Life is too short.  However I am another of those 'optimists' everyone seems to get irritated at for being (God forbid) positive in the face of adversity.  

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3 minutes ago, bean_sprout said:

If you recall that will happen in what - 9 years now?   We can post here but we should include a bit of truth don't you think?

Regards

bs

 

I repeat: we bought a PRODUCT, and were promised UPGRADES for ten years.

In my book, upgrading means making things better: more functional, more stable, more robust, more beautiful to the eye, more realistic.

We are witnessing a big mess. Particularly the last crashdate. 

What I (and others) are trying to say is that the devs should have relaxed after the fourth update, and should have worked on the fifth one trying not to break anything. I wouldn't have held them responsible of breaking any obligation if they said "let's wait two or maybe four months longer, because this thing is not coming out well". There's no rush! Or is there?

I really find it hard to accept that this sim might have been remembered as a historical breakthrough in our hobby, and instead at this time it is tightly tied with regressions, downgrades, ctd's and whatnot.

I really hope that they will learn from their mistakes, because the potential is still there, but if they really think their business is with the X/S box, they are in for some surprise.

If you are ok with that, that's up to you and I respect your opinion. I am not.

A.

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Ahhh time to break out thee ole" well i thought i was buying a finished very well polished product" customer satisfaction/quality control standard on MSFS I see 😏

No you didn't....you just thought the patches and further development would be bearable enough to enjoy the sim at the same time, but SU5 isn't for you and unfortunately you are gonna have to wait or go enjoy another sim for the time being,

while not getting the daily MSFS fix you yearn for. Your Steam/Microsoft Store refund window has expired long ago and here you are now actually realizing just what type of emotional rollercoaster you are invested into.

Till the point the next update will give you anxiety all over again. Fear of the unknown, will the next patch bring more pain or joy?

If you can't find any joy or adventure in these development experiences then maybe it's time hang it up for a bit?🤔

It's about your mental health afterall and it's in the hands of YOU...not MS/Asobo's🙃

 

 

 

 

Edited by blueshark747
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