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mpo910

Finally "FSX" is back since SU5

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18 minutes ago, simbol said:

To be fair, with DX12 VRAM capacity is very important.

So a 3090 or any card with plenty of VRAM is a solid investment.

S.

did a fast test with su5 hf1, sytem ram used in dev mode fps counter peak 7.33gib in hwinfo gpuz 9.2gib

vram 7.34 and gpuz hwinfo read 11.4gb 

with DX12 i think is good to have 24gib vram 

Edited by westman
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11 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

M$ searches the money where it is. On release in august last year FS2020 topped the Steam sale charts (top 10) for a week, since then it dropped down (games like GTA V topped these charts for more then 2 years so make the calculation yourself).
The Xbox will probably boost sales back again for a short while until 99,9% of the Xbox-ers find out that you can't shoot nor kill anything in FS2020. 

You are totally right. I am afraid MSFS2020 will not last long on 'boxes.

We will see.

A.

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10 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Nobody forced you to waste money on an overpriced GPU.

If you point me to the part where he complains for being forced to buy the card ...

On the other hand, there is a lot to say about a sim that promises upgrades and delivers downgrades instead.

A.

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19 hours ago, mpo910 said:

Dollars...via Xbox users....roi.....the bigger the profit the bigger the bonus....SDK is cost....reduces profit....reduces bonus....so no interest....at least till now it was exactly not in focus......because it's hasn't really got much attention this and last year

I'm sorry, I've seen enough over the past week and I need to comment now.

At the end of the day you are not going to sustain a project like FS2020 with a niche group of PC flight simmers, you cant have a flawless amazing simulation built just how a small subset of whining users want it with no compromise (And that's exactly what it is) a sim like that isn't made on the back of charity, it costs MONEY. sure there are mistakes and I'm sure they will work through them. There are significant development costs, the servers, and everything else that goers into producing a gaming title. This niche group of people (ie, us) paying $100 one time payment isn't going to cut it, they need the revenue to continue the support, that's just the compromise they are in and there needs to be give and take to accept a wider player base if you want a next gen sim. When you look at titles like Call of duty/Battlefield or series, the player base for development is already there enough to support it, they don't need to expand the user base to sustain development, your moaning about profit and bonus. Microsoft is a company, it has shareholders and when they embark on creating a new venture like this, there is a cost of capital outlay with a targeted return on investment, if they fail to meet this target, FS2020 will get canned, end of story. ring a bell? (FSX) unfinished and discarded. So before you start berating their strategy of trying to incorporate Xbox users into the equation, its to actually benefit us all in a round about way. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now to some of you. Flight sim isn't the glamourous FPS shooter genre that everyone wants so I applaud Asobo for trying to entice users into the genre to try and give this hobby a fighting chance.

Whew, I need a lie down after that haha.

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6 minutes ago, Spam3d said:

I'm sorry, I've seen enough over the past week and I need to comment now.

At the end of the day you are not going to sustain a project like FS2020 with a niche group of PC flight simmers, you cant have a flawless amazing simulation built just how a small subset of whining users want it with no compromise (And that's exactly what it is) a sim like that isn't made on the back of charity, it costs MONEY. sure there are mistakes and I'm sure they will work through them. There are significant development costs, the servers, and everything else that goers into producing a gaming title. This niche group of people (ie, us) paying $100 one time payment isn't going to cut it, they need the revenue to continue the support, that's just the compromise they are in and there needs to be give and take to accept a wider player base if you want a next gen sim. When you look at titles like Call of duty/Battlefield or series, the player base for development is already there enough to support it, they don't need to expand the user base to sustain development, your moaning about profit and bonus. Microsoft is a company, it has shareholders and when they embark on creating a new venture like this, there is a cost of capital outlay with a targeted return on investment, if they fail to meet this target, FS2020 will get canned, end of story. ring a bell? (FSX) unfinished and discarded. So before you start berating their strategy of trying to incorporate Xbox users into the equation, its to actually benefit us all in a round about way. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now to some of you. Flight sim isn't the glamourous FPS shooter genre that everyone wants so I applaud Asobo for trying to entice users into the genre to try and give this hobby a fighting chance.

Whew, I need a lie down after that haha.

Completely agree!


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26 minutes ago, Spam3d said:

I'm sorry, I've seen enough over the past week and I need to comment now.

Microsoft is a company, it has shareholders and when they embark on creating a new venture like this, there is a cost of capital outlay with a targeted return on investment, if they fail to meet this target, FS2020 will get canned, end of story. ring a bell? (FSX) unfinished and discarded. So before you start berating their strategy of trying to incorporate Xbox users into the equation, its to actually benefit us all in a round about way. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now to some of you. Flight sim isn't the glamourous FPS shooter genre that everyone wants so I applaud Asobo for trying to entice users into the genre to try and give this hobby a fighting chance.

Whew, I need a lie down after that haha.

Though this is true, what is being avoided here is that a lot of the changes they made (not all) were completely unrelated to the optimizations they may (or may not) have needed to do for the Xbox S. A lot of the changes were just a random throw a dart at a dartboard kind of thing. I am not sure about the financials, but traditionally PC gaming is generally a much larger market than the Xbox market by itself, though it has changed some lately due to the GPU shortage.

Even the changes that were necessary, really weren't necessary to FORCE on people, as they could have just kept it as an option for the PC version. The two code bases aren't identical anyways, but it appears they do want to keep them as similar as possible, but IMO that is another big mistake if they try to use the same code base without at least some minor changes between the two going forward.

Edited by Alpine Scenery

AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

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21 minutes ago, Spam3d said:

At the end of the day you are not going to sustain a project like FS2020 with a niche group of PC flight simmers, you cant have a flawless amazing simulation built just how a small subset of whining users want it with no compromise (And that's exactly what it is) a sim like that isn't made on the back of charity, it costs MONEY. sure there are mistakes and I'm sure they will work through them. There are significant development costs, the servers, and everything else that goers into producing a gaming title. This niche group of people (ie, us) paying $100 one time payment isn't going to cut it, they need the revenue to continue the support, that's just the compromise they are in and there needs to be give and take to accept a wider player base if you want a next gen sim. When you look at titles like Call of duty/Battlefield or series, the player base for development is already there enough to support it, they don't need to expand the user base to sustain development, your moaning about profit and bonus. Microsoft is a company, it has shareholders and when they embark on creating a new venture like this, there is a cost of capital outlay with a targeted return on investment, if they fail to meet this target, FS2020 will get canned, end of story. ring a bell? (FSX) unfinished and discarded. So before you start berating their strategy of trying to incorporate Xbox users into the equation, its to actually benefit us all in a round about way. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now to some of you. Flight sim isn't the glamourous FPS shooter genre that everyone wants so I applaud Asobo for trying to entice users into the genre to try and give this hobby a fighting chance.

Completely agree with your comments Spam3d, well said.


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23 minutes ago, Spam3d said:

I'm sorry, I've seen enough over the past week and I need to comment now.

At the end of the day you are not going to sustain a project like FS2020 with a niche group of PC flight simmers, you cant have a flawless amazing simulation built just how a small subset of whining users want it with no compromise (And that's exactly what it is) a sim like that isn't made on the back of charity, it costs MONEY. sure there are mistakes and I'm sure they will work through them. There are significant development costs, the servers, and everything else that goers into producing a gaming title. This niche group of people (ie, us) paying $100 one time payment isn't going to cut it, they need the revenue to continue the support, that's just the compromise they are in and there needs to be give and take to accept a wider player base if you want a next gen sim. When you look at titles like Call of duty/Battlefield or series, the player base for development is already there enough to support it, they don't need to expand the user base to sustain development, your moaning about profit and bonus. Microsoft is a company, it has shareholders and when they embark on creating a new venture like this, there is a cost of capital outlay with a targeted return on investment, if they fail to meet this target, FS2020 will get canned, end of story. ring a bell? (FSX) unfinished and discarded. So before you start berating their strategy of trying to incorporate Xbox users into the equation, its to actually benefit us all in a round about way. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now to some of you. Flight sim isn't the glamourous FPS shooter genre that everyone wants so I applaud Asobo for trying to entice users into the genre to try and give this hobby a fighting chance.

Whew, I need a lie down after that haha.

I did not moan. I agree on lots of things you say. 

They need Xbox.....but that comes at a  cost from simmers (hence still a very minor SDK).


Regards,

Marcus P.

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The Lod culling was removed from the PC version for now. The two versions are NOT the same. Though people in here keep saying they have to be exactly the same. The revenue they needed for Xbox is not connected to needing to force or break how the UI interacts with a polygon in a PC-intended only dev mode. I could make a list of like 50 other examples like this.

What happened most likely is they decided since they were going to make major changes in one area, so a precedent of a wild west like "add any code you want" atmosphere shortly ensued for the general release of this version.

 

Edited by Alpine Scenery

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13 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Though this is true, what is being avoided here is that a lot of the changes they made (not all) were completely unrelated to the optimizations they may (or may not) have needed to do for the Xbox S. A lot of the changes were just a random throw a dart at a dartboard kind of thing. I am not sure about the financials, but traditionally PC gaming is generally a much larger market than the Xbox market by itself, though it has changed some lately due to the GPU shortage.

Even the changes that were necessary, really weren't necessary to FORCE on people, as they could have just kept it as an option for the PC version. The two code bases aren't identical anyways, but it appears they do want to keep them as similar as possible, but IMO that is another big mistake if they try to use the same code base without at least some minor changes between the two going forward.

I agree that maybe some changes were not required, and I think errors have been made but I do not condone the absolute slating and berating that Asobo has received and i think they are trying to act in our interest. True the PC gaming market is huge, I have been a PC gamer for over 20 years and have never owned a console, BUT flight sim is a niche genre just like rally simulation such as Ray Burns rally, nobody is downloading FS2020 like they do League of Legends or Cyberpunk etc.

It could be possible that they cannot use two separate coded platforms due to time and resources and have had to work with what they have been given. maybe someone with more of a gaming dev background can clarify.

2 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

I did not moan. I agree on lots of things you say. 

They need Xbox.....but that comes at a  cost from simmers (hence still a very minor SDK).

I don't mean target you specifically, but lets be fair, there is an awful lot of toy throwing happening without stepping back and just looking at what they might be trying to do, even the best developers make errors and change games to the dismay of fans, it happens across many titles. Its complicated and I'm just grateful that they have brought us a fresh flight sim platform to use going into the future.

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5 minutes ago, Spam3d said:

It could be possible that they cannot use two separate coded platforms due to time and resources and have had to work with what they have been given. maybe someone with more of a gaming dev background can clarify.

It's their mindset because Xbox is basically Windows, so they don't have to change that much code. Keeping the code as similar as possible is not necessarily a bad thing, but it would be easy to get lazy about it and overdo it in the attempt to try to keep the changes so minimalistic between the two versions. So the developers likely partitioned one portion of the code that is absolutely needed to be maintained between the two versions.

That said, gaming companies are used to having lots of branches, sometimes you have to release a game for 5 different incompatible systems. It depends on the gaming engine to how much trouble it is, some game engines are made to be somewhat more neutral between C++ ports than other. C++ is in itself somewhat portable between different operating systems and OS, but you have to maintain the portability of it actively or anything you make becomes non-portable.

Edited by Alpine Scenery

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Honestly after reading this thread I have lost a little more faith in humanity, the whining is unreal. We don't deserve a next generation flight simulator and as rightly pointed out many times...  Microsoft have to pay for all of this somehow!! Without the lifeblood of xbox then you can kiss it all goodbye because the model is unsustainable otherwise.  

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I'm glad they ported it to the Xbox. The point is it should be kept as two separate issues overall. Though I understand why people are tying all the issues directly to the Xbox changes, some of it is related and some of it is not.

 


 

Edited by Alpine Scenery

AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

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1 hour ago, Spam3d said:

I'm sorry, I've seen enough over the past week and I need to comment now.

At the end of the day you are not going to sustain a project like FS2020 with a niche group of PC flight simmers, you cant have a flawless amazing simulation built just how a small subset of whining users want it with no compromise (And that's exactly what it is) a sim like that isn't made on the back of charity, it costs MONEY. sure there are mistakes and I'm sure they will work through them. There are significant development costs, the servers, and everything else that goers into producing a gaming title. This niche group of people (ie, us) paying $100 one time payment isn't going to cut it, they need the revenue to continue the support, that's just the compromise they are in and there needs to be give and take to accept a wider player base if you want a next gen sim. When you look at titles like Call of duty/Battlefield or series, the player base for development is already there enough to support it, they don't need to expand the user base to sustain development, your moaning about profit and bonus. Microsoft is a company, it has shareholders and when they embark on creating a new venture like this, there is a cost of capital outlay with a targeted return on investment, if they fail to meet this target, FS2020 will get canned, end of story. ring a bell? (FSX) unfinished and discarded. So before you start berating their strategy of trying to incorporate Xbox users into the equation, its to actually benefit us all in a round about way. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now to some of you. Flight sim isn't the glamourous FPS shooter genre that everyone wants so I applaud Asobo for trying to entice users into the genre to try and give this hobby a fighting chance.

Whew, I need a lie down after that haha.

You seem like like a rational person and I appreciate your well constructed statement... but I respectfully disagree with you. I mean no offense at all, I just completely disagree.

If all of what you are saying was clearly stated by Microsoft and Asobo in the beginning, I would not be nearly as upset as I am. If they did, then I certainly missed it. (it is possible as enthusiasm and older age could have blurred my understanding and expectations of what I was being sold! haha!)

Without rambling on and on. We were sold a product and a vision that was presented in a certain way directly to the people that you say are a small subset. If it had been mainly advertised/marketed in the mainstream AAA gaming forums and not in our little world then I would probably have steered away. It was actually marketed directly to me. Or at least it seemed so. So myself and many other (niche hardcore) users bought into it. We were all skeptical at first, but as the builds began to come out, I think I can speak for many of us, we were very impressed! Many of us even upgraded our rigs specifically for this developing title. There was direct communication with the developers. Yes there were bugs, but there was also a lot of progress.

Then it was officially released and I, personally, have seen more backward steps than forward steps ever since. With this latest update ...well, lets just say I'm not one of the positive ones.

I genuinely understand your statements about profit/margins/shareholders and expanding the user base. I just really didn't think MSFS was going to be ..that. Probably because the Dev's have been telling me the opposite of that since the beginning! That's why I'm unhappy about this turn of events! Will all of this xbox stuff benefit us in the long run... hopefully, maybe, probably. Is that what I paid for a year ago? NO!

Cheers

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16 hours ago, mpo910 said:

Yeah. And I count you to that "group of most people". 

It it makes you feel better go right ahead and think that.  I wont begrudge you your fantasies.

Cheers.

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