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ChaoticBeauty

Regarding Your Feedback + Upcoming Hotfix

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1 minute ago, MultiMediaWill said:

It's both. It's certainly a visual downgrade for me compared to what we had for the first 11 months of the sim. 

What a conspiracy theory. Ridiculous, I hope this thread will be locked soon.

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14 minutes ago, MultiMediaWill said:

That's where I believe that you're wrong. Asobo 'optimized' memory by reducing the amount of scenery stored in RAM when not viewing it directly with the camera. Therefore, when I quickly change my view (to see down the wing for example), the scenery now has to load in for the new view. So in this case, their 'optimizations' certainly changed what we see. 

Yes, and that's a valid approach to reduce the load on the GPU and CPU. And as probably always, this is guided by a set of internal parameters that can be adjusted to make better use of the available ressources. They just have to make them accessible via the settings sliders and/or config files. Nothing is set in stone, the 6GB VRAM that they aimed for on the Xbox can easily be adjusted for high-end PC hardware according to user settings in a future update.

That doesn't mean the situation is great right now for those with high-end GPUs, but there's no reason to believe we're stuck with the scenery culling optimised for Xbox VRAM.

Edited by pstrub
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2 minutes ago, MultiMediaWill said:

It's both. It's certainly a visual downgrade for me compared to what we had for the first 11 months of the sim. 

I'm afraid I disagree there - but I do see your point.

Hopefully the configuration option they have talked about including in WU6 will help resolve that.

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1 minute ago, urthgental said:

What a conspiracy theory. Ridiculous, I hope this thread will be locked soon.

Conspiracy theory? To me this is a fact. What I see in Sim Update 5, to me, is unequivocally a downgrade. That's with over 1,300 hours logged on MSFS since release so I have seen A LOT and not just making baseless theories. 

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26 minutes ago, MultiMediaWill said:

From Asobo's own mouth, “We tuned the distances, the draw distances, of objects and the way the LOD’s are being used in order to minimize the number of meshes and textures in memory at the same time.”

I have to defend Lionel a bit here, because he's a really, truly, a great dude, super smart, and that's a very out of context take.

A game LOD system is a super complex beast, especially in a system like this where you have a multitude of streaming assets with widely varying sizes and texture requirements. They all need to be on the screen at an appropriate level of detail, but what determines appropriate? Well, one simple approach is that you load everything in for each asset that could potentially be visible, and you burn a ton of RAM and waste CPU on your main thread doing memory management. This is maybe sometimes the safest in I/O terms, but not really a well optimized solution for the sim use case. And what is it that you actually display? Should the shrub that is 4x4 pixels screen size but 5m away get full LOD while the skyscraper that's 1500m away but 150x150 pixels get a lower LOD, just due to distance? Do you keep every LOD in memory or only the ones likely to be displayed? Do you stream in compressed or uncompressed textures, and when for each? Each answer to this question has follow on effects for the next answer, and the next answer, etc.

The whole thing is a complex dance that is way more art than science, and that's what Lionel means by "tuning". At a certain point, no matter the architecture, there's little gained (and much to be lost) by holding assets in memory if the I/O subsystem is sufficiently speedy and threaded, but what that exact breakpoint might be is never precise (and changes depending on hardware). So, you try to do this whole balance thing to not affect any one part too much, win some cases, hopefully not lose in other cases. What was done was thought to be a pretty clear net win overall. PC performance is objectively positively affected by these optimizations.

However, it's clear that a part of the community disagrees, and the team listens to that. And that's why you'll see more options going forward.

-Matt

Edited by MattNischan
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9 minutes ago, Sesquashtoo said:

...and they have no professionals in the Quality Control Department that have been trained to vet out 'bugs' before RTM?  Not in my engineering ecoculture.  You'd be called upon the corporate matt, or even be fired....for that negligence.

They get a bonus as the delivered FS on XBox in time. And it was communicated in various Q&A that this will free resources on RAM/GPU to increase fidelity for powerful PCs afterwards…

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1 minute ago, Slides said:

You seem to not know much about graphics rendering development and it shows.

It doesn't matter what I do and don't know about rendering development. What I do know is that for 11 months, I saw one thing, and them BAM Sim Update 5 I am now seeing something downgraded compared to before. That is all, don't over complicate it.

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13 minutes ago, MultiMediaWill said:

Asobo 'optimized' memory by reducing the amount of scenery stored in RAM when not viewing it directly with the camera.

That's how all game engines work.

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26 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I don't believe that the downgrade was not driven by the requirements of an XBox running at a minimum 30fps under all circumstances. 

But this doesn't mean any evil intentions against the PC version either, just that maybe the common denominator is perceived as "too low" or a regression when experienced on PC. Note though that some have been advocating they implement sliders for fine grained control from the get go, which would have certainly helped I guess in this case because users could have been able to re-adjust the balance of visuals/performance to their liking, instead of having to wait days for an official word and more days for a hotfix.

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1 minute ago, Slides said:

That's how all game engines work.

That's how this game engine works as of July 27th 2021. Before that we had something much better in my opinion. Glad the sliders are on the way at least.

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4 minutes ago, Slides said:

That's how all game engines work.

My personal opinion is that Asobo were too agressive with the object culling for people using head tracking or VR.

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3 minutes ago, MultiMediaWill said:

That's how this game engine works as of July 27th 2021. Before that we had something much better in my opinion. Glad the sliders are on the way at least.

All game engines use culling to some level. You wiring optimization in quotes won't change the fact what this is.


FSX | DCS | X-Plane 11 | MSFS 2020 | IL2:BoX

Favorite aircraft currently: MSFS Savage Cub

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3 minutes ago, RXP said:

But this doesn't mean any evil intentions against the PC version either, just that maybe the common denominator is perceived as "too low" or a regression when experienced on PC. Note though that some have been advocating they implement sliders for fine grained control from the get go, which would have certainly helped I guess in this case because users could have been able to re-adjust the balance of visuals/performance to their liking, instead of having to wait days for an official word and more days for a hotfix.

Of course it isn't the case of evil intent. It's simply a case of money talking. I trust that the XBox sales have exceeded their expectations.

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1 minute ago, Matchstick said:

My personal opinion is that Asobo were too agressive with the object culling for people using head tracking or VR.

Yeah and I think even Asobo would agree with this after feedback.

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FSX | DCS | X-Plane 11 | MSFS 2020 | IL2:BoX

Favorite aircraft currently: MSFS Savage Cub

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6 minutes ago, MultiMediaWill said:

That's how this game engine works as of July 27th 2021. Before that we had something much better in my opinion. Glad the sliders are on the way at least.

Yes, and every Airport Desinger was allowed to throw in a much as he wanted. It was the customer who realized that certain airports/scenery is much more demanding than others.

At some point in time MS needs to get this under control, especially distributing content on their marketplace. The time has come now, maybe too late. But in the long run everybody will benefit from having LOD mandatory for that whatever you load into the Sim will not reduce performance…

And please, if you do not understand the context listen and learn.

Edited by urthgental
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