41 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

Thank you for your kind suggestions. Alas, I have five tickets at Zendesk already. Four of them marked as "solved" (before the latest hotpatch) despite them not being anywhere close to solved. They have absolutely no solution to the issue at hand. The fifth ticket is yet to be responded to, but rest assured they have given me lots of nonsensical tips in their auto-generated response (no overcclock, vanilla sim et cetera). Been there, done that. Still does not work. I would say the odds of them fixing this is slim to none (seeing as CTDs seems to be quit low on those Feedback snapshots and the very vague wording from them regarding the issue). 

(And before any of the "l33t haxxors" bless me with their knowledge; there is nothing wrong with my computer as it functions perfectly well without issue doing everything else besides MSFS). 

Zendesk many times is using the scripts they have for solutions. Everyone gets the answers in the script, nothing more.

Edited August 13, 20214 yr by Bobsk8

14 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I love statistics from "MULTIPLE" sources within the context of those statistics which in your case is exclusively OnAir (a subscription service aimed at the game of airline manager).

I also posted the steam statistics that shows MSFS is gaining popularity. Unfortunately we don´t have P3D´s numbers for that...

14 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Does everyone that operates flight simulators use OnAir?  It's a subscription service to simulate a "tycoon" ... a game ... which is a great idea and gives purpose to those that need more than just flying around (something I'd be interested in using).  I knew nothing about OnAir until I researched it, it's a subscription based product so I know that many don't go for anything subscription related, but it sure looks like a very good product.  So I thank you for bringing OnAir to my attention.

Of course not everyone uses OnAir, that is not the point. The platform does, however, support ALL simulators, *and* is a paid service, so I believe the numbers shared represent a fair assessment of what is going on in the enthusiast microcosm (the one I believe most Avsim users are inserted).

14 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Your subject title is just like the many "attention" grabbing titles I see on YouTube and elsewhere ... purely to get attention "Domination".  Let me put that into perspective, you could have removed the "Domination" part and simply provided the statistics say like "OnAir Aircraft usage data" ... we can decide what is and isn't domination with context, we're big boys and girls.

So if someone posted "Prepar3D Dominates military and commercial simulators with zero MSFS" ... that's called Trolling in my book, egging on people to respond even though it statistically accurate ... it's a thread marketing gimmick for the purpose of attention seeking.

As said before, this might be a language issue as I am not a native English speaker. Have you ever tried engaging in discussions in German? As a speaker of four languages, I am used to these kinds of misunderstandings, so apologies if you or anyone else felt attacked by the thread title.

Edited August 13, 20214 yr by GCBraun

Just now, Bobsk8 said:

Zendesk many times is using the scripts they have for solutions. Everyone gets the answers on the script, nothing more.

Yeah, I kind of got that, hence my "auto-generated" remark.  ;-)

 

 

14 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'll disagree, my assessment based on regular feedback from AVSIMers and other sources is they don't want to pay for any subscription based service.  OnAir is also "game focused"  (tycoon airline manager) which is great (I don't care about the game vs. sim endless debates to each his or her own) but certainly doesn't encapsulate all "enthusiast" ... I've been flight simming for several decades and until today never heard of OnAir (however, I will take a look at it).

You know very well that the Netflix culture is here to stay and subscription services such as Game Pass offer a huge value, so I do expect that more and more users opt to support similar services in order to get a better experience. I am a long-time FSEconomy user but, unfortunately, the lack of support and relevant updates led me to OnAir. 

14 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Perhaps you can enlighten me on the reason why you are trying to prove there are more MSFS users than P3D or XP or FSX or DCS or ... ?

Cheers, Rob.

I believe those statistics are interesting and may offer a glimpse on which sim will get most attention from freeware and payware developers going forward. That´s all.

Edited August 13, 20214 yr by GCBraun

15 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'll disagree, my assessment based on regular feedback from AVSIMers and other sources is they don't want to pay for any subscription based service.  OnAir is also "game focused"  (tycoon airline manager) which is great (I don't care about the game vs. sim endless debates to each his or her own) but certainly doesn't encapsulate all "enthusiast" ... I've been flight simming for several decades and until today never heard of OnAir (however, I will take a look at it).

Perhaps you can enlighten me on the reason why you are trying to prove there are more MSFS users than P3D or XP or FSX or DCS or ... ?

Cheers, Rob.

 

Question, can you disprove it?

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I love statistics from "MULTIPLE" sources within the context of those statistics which in your case is exclusively OnAir (a subscription service aimed at the game of airline manager).

Does everyone that operates flight simulators use OnAir?  It's a subscription service to simulate a "tycoon" ... a game ... which is a great idea and gives purpose to those that need more than just flying around (something I'd be interested in using).  I knew nothing about OnAir until I researched it, it's a subscription based product so I know that many don't go for anything subscription related, but it sure looks like a very good product.  So I thank you for bringing OnAir to my attention.

Your subject title is just like the many "attention" grabbing titles I see on YouTube and elsewhere ... purely to get attention "Domination".  Let me put that into perspective, you could have removed the "Domination" part and simply provided the statistics say like "OnAir Aircraft usage data" ... we can decide what is and isn't domination with context, we're big boys and girls.

So if someone posted "Prepar3D Dominates military and commercial simulators with zero MSFS" ... that's called Trolling in my book, egging on people to respond even though it statistically accurate ... it's a thread marketing gimmick for the purpose of attention seeking.

Cheers, Rob.

Which source shows that P3D is doing well?

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'll disagree, my assessment based on regular feedback from AVSIMers and other sources is they don't want to pay for any subscription based service.  OnAir is also "game focused"  (tycoon airline manager) which is great (I don't care about the game vs. sim endless debates to each his or her own) but certainly doesn't encapsulate all "enthusiast" ... I've been flight simming for several decades and until today never heard of OnAir (however, I will take a look at it).

Perhaps you can enlighten me on the reason why you are trying to prove there are more MSFS users than P3D or XP or FSX or DCS or ... ?

Cheers, Rob.

 

The point of Avsim users wanting to pay for subscription services is beside the point. Given the avg age skews older I can believe that to be the case. The fact that players are paying for a service like OnAir and the flightsim of choice seems to be skewed towards MSFS is interesting. Could be because MSFS2020 is the new kid on the block so to speak compared to the others. The data presented is only a glimpse and doesnt stipulate the reasons so we are speculating. It can also mean there's a much wider audience than just here at Avsim. I know we like to think this is the "center" of the universe regarding GA. That dynamic may be changing. 

Edited August 13, 20214 yr by joec63

2 minutes ago, joec63 said:

The point of Avsim users wanting to pay for subscrition services is beside the point. The fact that players are paying for a service like OnAir and the flightsim of choice seems to be skewed towards MSFS is interesting. Could be because MSFS2020 is the new kid on the block so to speak compared to the others. The data presented is only a glimpse and doesnt stipulate the reasons so we are speculating. It can also mean there's a much wider audience than just here at Avsim. I know we like to think this is the "center" of the universe so to speak regarding GA. That dynamic may be changing. 

You read some of the other forums, and Avsim is not very  high on many lists. 

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

You read some of the other forums, and Avsim is not very  high on many lists. 

What other forums?
The ‘other’ forums are for those that don’t like to follow AVSIM’s rules. 
 

10 hours ago, GCBraun said:

" My sim's better than your's"

the OP didn't say that, he posted usage numbers, however relevant those may be. but watching forums for other simulators, I see similar trends. quite quiet there.

I fly in multiple sims myself (MSFS, X-plane, and DCS) and I'm quite interested in statistics like this:

1. Because it's interesting.
2. It helps me make informed decisions when purchasing addons.
3. Microsoft and third party vendors have not been forthcoming with actual numbers.

Is the sample data small relative to the total user base? Maybe, but if so that means there's a lot of flying going on ;). Is the sample data biased? Maybe, but we don't know in which direction if any. However, we can look at many other data sets and try to make some conclusions. The sheer number of addons being worked on or released for MSFS is impressive. The steam data posted in this thread shows strong numbers and growth. On twitch, MSFS has 228K followers, X-plane has 75k, DCS has 102k, and P3D only 11k. The fact that a company as big as Microsoft actually mentioned Flight Simulator next to Minecraft as one of their most popular titles helping to double their "creator economy" in their last earnings call is crazy (source: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2021-Q4/press-release-webcast).

Clearly, MSFS has added a lot of users to the flight simulator community and has helped stir up the third party content market. I'm not sure why some people are trying to dispute this with anecdotal stories from friends. I love all three of the sims that I fly for different reasons, but from the evidence I've seen I believe that the size of the MSFS market is at least an order of magnitude larger and the OnAir numbers seem to support that. If it's true, there's no reason to be upset about it. If not, then I'm wrong and who cares. We can enjoy all of our simulators and there's no reason to be defensive about your choice of simulator.

On 8/12/2021 at 4:43 PM, vgbaron said:

If this thread heads in the direction of a litany of MSFS vs P3D/XP posts - it will end rather abruptly.

You should have ended it after post #1.

5 hours ago, GCBraun said:

I also posted the steam statistics that shows MSFS is gaining popularity. Unfortunately we don´t have P3D´s numbers for that...

Of course not everyone uses OnAir, that is not the point. The platform does, however, support ALL simulators, *and* is a paid service, so I believe the numbers shared represent a fair assessment of what is going on in the enthusiast microcosm (the one I believe most Avsim users are inserted).

As said before, this might be a language issue as I am not a native English speaker. Have you ever tried engaging in discussions in German? As a speaker of four languages, I am used to these kinds of misunderstandings, so apologies if you or anyone else felt attacked by the thread title.

Well you've actually proven two points with this thread...

This behavior below its quite telling...and at the same time very disturbing a user feels so comfortable trying to use the moderators as their personal attack/guard dogs in an attempt to silence an opinion they simply don't agree with. Making fun of a thread title is one thing, but trying to silence a thread because of disagreement is another.

This does indeed validate your past observations of bias here on AVSIM.

 

11 hours ago, fppilot said:

OK mods.  It's well past time.  When chiding begins its time to draw the curtain.

1 hour ago, Mace said:

You should have ended it after post #1.

Edited August 13, 20214 yr by blueshark747

11 hours ago, GCBraun said:

Nothing worse than being stuck your in old ways forever...

Again. What I took exception to was this statement and nothing more.  I honestly do not for a minute believe I am the only member here who takes exception to comments like that! 

OK, I gave it a good run. Several intelligent comments surrounded by severe attempts at "mine is bigger than yours".

Time to shut it down.