Upgrade Advice

[WestAir 2,522]

So I built a PC back in June of 18 and it's showing its age. Here's what I have:

CPU: Intel Core i7-8700K (3.70 Ghz)
RAM: 32 GB RAM 4X8FG DDR4 3200
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti
MOBO: ASUS MAXIMUS X HERO
PSU: EVGA SUPERNOVA 1000W G3

I can run 4K ULTRA on MSFS and get 14-30 fps depending, with 24 avg, with SU5. I'm limited by main-thread so I want to start there. (I've given up hope on ever updating my GPU)

I don't know if I can upgrade my CPU without needing to upgrade my MOBO, and if I have to upgrade that do I need to update my RAM as well? I guess what I'm asking is, now that I'm out of the loop, what would you do to get those juicy frames in MSFS 2020?

My budget is $1k for this upgrade.

Thanks for any advice!

[Emerson67 248]

You must check the socket type of the new CPU. Usually, newer CPUs have newer sockets types, and a motherboard uses a particular socket type. This is most common on Intel. In this case, you may need to change the motherboard. Currently, you can use your old DDR4 memory on almost all new motherboards.

[fppilot 4,363]

5 hours ago, WestAir said:

I've given up hope on ever updating my GPU

Many of us feel your pain!  Many of us!

[Bob Scott 7,720]

Do you overclock your 8700K?  My previous sim box (now my driving/FPS gaming rig) was an 8086K, which is a binned 8700K , and it handily manages 5.3GHz.

You could put an i9-9900K on that same mobo.  That would give you two more cores and 33% more L3 cache, but no significant increase in clock speed and single-thread throughput.

Your system looks pretty well balanced as it is...until you can swing a GPU upgrade, I don't really see any low-hanging fruit along the road to a more comprehensive upgrade.

[GCBraun 2,392]

Set 4K as a resolution, but lower the render scale to 80% or so. You should not notice much difference, but hopefully you get a good boost on the FPS.

[fppilot 4,363]

37 minutes ago, w6kd said:

That would give you two more cores and 33% more L3 cache, but no significant increase in clock speed and single-thread throughput.

So that begs a question.  Should an upgrade to a system with a processor like mine be set for HT or for single thread for MSFS?
One recommendation I see above would move him to an 8 Core, 16 thread CPU.

Edited August 13, 2021 by fppilot

[WestAir 2,522]

1 hour ago, Emerson67 said:

You must check the socket type of the new CPU. Usually, newer CPUs have newer sockets types, and a motherboard uses a particular socket type. This is most common on Intel. In this case, you may need to change the motherboard. Currently, you can use your old DDR4 memory on almost all new motherboards.

Yeah, It looks like I can only update to an i9-9900K. What a bummer!

1 hour ago, fppilot said:

Many of us feel your pain!  Many of us!

I looked at my reciepts and I paid $800 for this GTX 1080 TI back in June 2018. A 3080 TI is averaging $1,700!

55 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Do you overclock your 8700K?  My previous sim box (now my driving/FPS gaming rig) was an 8086K, which is a binned 8700K , and it handily manages 5.3GHz.

You could put an i9-9900K on that same mobo.  That would give you two more cores and 33% more L3 cache, but no significant increase in clock speed and single-thread throughput.

Your system looks pretty well balanced as it is...until you can swing a GPU upgrade, I don't really see any low-hanging fruit along the road to a more comprehensive upgrade.

I don't overclock no. I had a lot of issues getting this system to boot and once I found the right settings I stopped touching them. It was my first build since I was a kid and I'm too far out of the loop to get back into the grove of confidently changing voltages and drivers and settings. I don't even know what kind of socket I have on my MOBO, haha.

Thanks for confirming my fears though. I was hoping I could just pop in a new i9-11900K and call it a day until I could upgrade to a 3080, but it won't be that easy.

52 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Set 4K as a resolution, but lower the render scale to 80% or so. You should not notice much difference, but hopefully you get a good boost on the FPS.

I have a huge 4k screen; I tried changing the render scale below 100 at 4k but I actually notice the difference in sharpness on the cockpit instruments. It's fuzzy. Maybe I'll lower the render scaling and just sit further back from the screen, lol.

37 minutes ago, fppilot said:

So that begs a question.  Should an upgrade to a system with a processor like mine be set for HT or for single thread for MSFS?
One recommendation I see above would move him to an 8 Core, 16 thread CPU.

Everyone on the MSFS forums has been saying make sure HT is on along with "gaming mode" for W10.

[fppilot 4,363]

22 minutes ago, WestAir said:

I looked at my reciepts and I paid $800 for this GTX 1080 TI back in June 2018. A 3080 TI is averaging $1,700!

 

I got lucky in April 2020. I snagged an 8GB GTX 1070 TI Turbo from eBay at just under $300.  No way to do that today.  My older GTX 970 Limited Ed 4GB would bring most of that today.

[Bob Scott 7,720]

I think 4K on a single 1080Ti is quite a stretch.  I ran a pair of them in SLI with my 8086K, and I considered that to be a minimum-acceptable configuration for 4K.  I still have both of those cards...one is in my portable PC together with a 5.0 GHz i9-9900K (driving a 2560x1440 G-Sync monitor), and the other I keep as a spare.

If you're limiting yourself to running at stock speeds, then the 9900K might be worth considering.  It's a good CPU, and a drop-in replacement for that 8700K on your current system.

 

 

 

[WestAir 2,522]

12 minutes ago, w6kd said:

I think 4K on a single 1080Ti is quite a stretch.  I ran a pair of them in SLI with my 8086K, and I considered that to be a minimum-acceptable configuration for 4K.  I still have both of those cards...one is in my portable PC together with a 5.0 GHz i9-9900K (driving a 2560x1440 G-Sync monitor), and the other I keep as a spare.

If you're limiting yourself to running at stock speeds, then the 9900K might be worth considering.  It's a good CPU, and a drop-in replacement for that 8700K on your current system.

 

 

 

Thanks Bob. Spending $800 on a 9900K is probably my cheapest option to squeeze a few more frames. At HIGH I can VSYNC lock to 30 FPS in the storm weather preset, while panning in a circle. It's only Ultra where I dropping down to 14 during the panning, and 24 when just looking ahead. Dev mode is telling me my CPU mainthread is the bottleneck, so if I can squeeze the extra 6fps out of the 9900 to hold 30 while looking ahead / flying, I'm thinking of going for it.

Is the 10900K a huge leap ahead for you? If I upgrade mobo's I'd just build a new PC at that point, so it would have to be worth the $$$. (60FPS in ULTRA)

[Bob Scott 7,720]

$800...whaaaat??!  The i9-9900K is selling for $362.50 on Amazon now.

The 10900K was a major improvement for my primary target use case--P3D in really high-demand areas.  That said, I started my i9-10900K build with a 2080Ti and then moved up to the 3090. 

The 9900K + 1080Ti combo on my portable system seems to run MSFS OK, but at 2560x1440, and with reduced settings.  I haven't been able to sustain enough interest in MSFS to bother with comparisons of the two systems while running it.  I haven't tried on either system since the SU5 train wreck.

[WestAir 2,522]

20 hours ago, w6kd said:

$800...whaaaat??!  The i9-9900K is selling for $362.50 on Amazon now.

The 10900K was a major improvement for my primary target use case--P3D in really high-demand areas.  That said, I started my i9-10900K build with a 2080Ti and then moved up to the 3090. 

The 9900K + 1080Ti combo on my portable system seems to run MSFS OK, but at 2560x1440, and with reduced settings.  I haven't been able to sustain enough interest in MSFS to bother with comparisons of the two systems while running it.  I haven't tried on either system since the SU5 train wreck.

So I'm contemplating a complete upgrade. I noticed you have the 10900K. Is a 11900K worth the extra few bucks? Right now I'm thinking about buying a:

GPU: Gigabyte RTX 3080
CPU: Intel i9 11900K (3.5Ghz)
MOBO: ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero
RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro 2X34GB | DDR4 3200

I used newegg to find the bits and pieces. They don't even have a 3080 Ti or 3090 😕

[Bob Scott 7,720]

I'm not convinced that giving up two physical cores on the 10900K is worth a few percent better IPC on the 11900K.  I've really not been tempted by the gen 11 CPUs at all.  And it's more than a few extra bucks when you consider the much more expensive motherboard--more like $200 more.  I am still very happy with the 10900K.

At this point, finding a 3080Ti or 3090 for your build is going to be the long pole in that tent.

 

 

[David_CSA 36]

13 hours ago, w6kd said:

I'm not convinced that giving up two physical cores on the 10900K is worth a few percent better IPC on the 11900K.  I've really not been tempted by the gen 11 CPUs at all.  And it's more than a few extra bucks when you consider the much more expensive motherboard--more like $200 more.  I am still very happy with the 10900K.

At this point, finding a 3080Ti or 3090 for your build is going to be the long pole in that tent.

 

 

Hello, very interesting consideration concerning.10900K and 11900K. I made the same conclusion and went from 10700K to 10900K.

Just to wrap it up: What do you think please about dropping the 11th gen 11900K into the 10th gen board? I have Z490-E from Asus. Despite the BIOS now supporting 11th gen CPUs I didn't find the courage and trust to do it.

Final remark: Due to other reasons I fly MSFS in 1080p (actually 1200p with adaptive sync) using 3070. It's a blast, GPU obviously not utilized, CPU being the bottleneck. Haven't tried SU5 yet.

Thank you for any remarks.

[Bob Scott 7,720]

5 hours ago, David_CSA said:

Just to wrap it up: What do you think please about dropping the 11th gen 11900K into the 10th gen board? I have Z490-E from Asus. Despite the BIOS now supporting 11th gen CPUs I didn't find the courage and trust to do it.

As long as the BIOS is updated and certified for it, the 11900K should work fine in a Z490 board.  The differences between the Z590 and Z490 boards are not likely to make a difference to a sim installation--PCIe 4.0 support, 4 extra PCIe lanes, 10 vs 6 USB 3.2 ports, etc.

If you do something else with the PC, e.g. video rendering that might make use of a PCIe 4.0 SSD's higher bandwidth, it might make sense.

Still, IMHO, having 10 physical cores at 5.2GHz trumps having other capabilities my sim can't really leverage...