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Shomron

Workaround for Pro ATC x issues

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Hi,

I've recently purchased ProATC after flying RC4 after over a decade ūüėÉ

I'll ask here as from my understanding there is no frequent support on the forum, appreciate any help.

My main issue is around approach & vectoring-

1. Vectoring is not working well for me, usually after the STAR ends the controller vectors me too late to intercpect the localizer and I get course correction to intercept it from the other direction, is there a way to improve that?

2. Is there a way to request vectors before the STAR ends?

3. Is there a way to request visual approach during the STAR rather then wait until reaching the last STAR waypoint?

4. Airline callsigns - some are spelled phonetically rather then calling out the airline name, why is that?

 

Thanks!

 

Shomron


Shom

 

[Win 10 Pro, i7-9700K, EVGA 1080Ti, Crucial 2666 16GB, 2 500GB Samsung EVOs 850/860]

[MSFS 2020 running with PMDG 737, Aerosoft CRJ]

[P3D v5.3 HF2 running with FSLabs A319/320/321, Feelthere E170/175/190/195 v3, PMDG 737 NGXu ,TFDI 717, Aerosoft CRJ Pro, Majestic Dash 8, CS 757 iii, Feelthere ERJ-145, Fly The Maddog X, QW 787, PMDG 777]

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Anyone...?


Shom

 

[Win 10 Pro, i7-9700K, EVGA 1080Ti, Crucial 2666 16GB, 2 500GB Samsung EVOs 850/860]

[MSFS 2020 running with PMDG 737, Aerosoft CRJ]

[P3D v5.3 HF2 running with FSLabs A319/320/321, Feelthere E170/175/190/195 v3, PMDG 737 NGXu ,TFDI 717, Aerosoft CRJ Pro, Majestic Dash 8, CS 757 iii, Feelthere ERJ-145, Fly The Maddog X, QW 787, PMDG 777]

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Can't help on all of these, but on point 1, I encounter this quite often. When it happens I just ignore ATC and align on the approach myself, and Pro-ATC/X usually picks up that I've done this and hands me to the tower.

I'm finding that the latest update is worse than the previous one at this and other things. I'm getting completely silent descent and turn instructions from ATC where the first thing I hear is 'did you copy?' by which time it's too late. Occasionally it seems to forget about me altogether. Seems like a few things were broken with this update. If I have the co-pilot active then I regularly don't get instructions that I need. I'm going to pull a log on the approach and then send it in to the forum. But as we usually get precisely one update per year (and we had none at all from 2018 until earlier this year) and no hotfixes, if it's broken now chances are it'll be broken until next year.

Quite honestly, if there were a better option for me (I've tried more or less all of them, and there isn't), I'd switch. If VATSIM had more coverage and I flew in real-time, which I usually don't, then I'd probably go with that.

On 2 and 3 - the choices open to you are determined by the phase of the flight. You can request direct clearance to a waypoint, change runway or STAR up until you are on with the approach controller; not sure about directly requesting vectors, I don't have the sim running right now. Whatever options there are at the current time will be under 'other requests' on the menu. 

On 4 - this is about the voice set you're using. Each has a list of airline callsigns recorded but coverage varies, and newer airlines are not being added to the existing voices. The 'add-on' voices from Mave are very patchy in their coverage. Simple example: many voice sets don't have the word 'decimal' recorded so when an instruction includes a frequency like 130.75 you will get 'one-three-zero' in the controller voice, then 'DECIMAL' in a different voice that has the word recorded, then 'seven-five' in the original voice again. Very immersion breaking. Same applies to intersection names etc - they are spelled phonetically. Short of moving to TTS I don't see how they will ever fix this. There used to be a tool you could use to record voice sets and I did consider maybe getting my friends to come over and record new voices in return for me cooking them dinner, but apparently the tool no longer works and there's no sign Pro-ATC/X is going to fix it.

Honestly, it seems like the attitude over there is 'shut up, don't complain, you'll get what we give you when we give it to you and like it'. And that sits poorly with me. I don't like being held hostage - I felt that with Ultimate Traffic Live but there was AIG to go to. With Pro-ATC/X, nothing else completely suits my use-case more than it does, bugs and all.

If all else fails, I just ignore ATC and do my own thing. I'd rather cheat and get on the ground than go round in circles. 

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Temporary sim: 9700K @ 5GHz, 2TB NVMe SSD, RTX 3080Ti, MSFS + SPAD.NeXT

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12 minutes ago, neilhewitt said:

Can't help on all of these, but on point 1, I encounter this quite often. When it happens I just ignore ATC and align on the approach myself, and Pro-ATC/X usually picks up that I've done this and hands me to the tower.

I'm finding that the latest update is worse than the previous one at this and other things. I'm getting completely silent descent and turn instructions from ATC where the first thing I hear is 'did you copy?' by which time it's too late. Occasionally it seems to forget about me altogether. Seems like a few things were broken with this update. If I have the co-pilot active then I regularly don't get instructions that I need. I'm going to pull a log on the approach and then send it in to the forum. But as we usually get precisely one update per year (and we had none at all from 2018 until earlier this year) and no hotfixes, if it's broken now chances are it'll be broken until next year.

Quite honestly, if there were a better option for me (I've tried more or less all of them, and there isn't), I'd switch. If VATSIM had more coverage and I flew in real-time, which I usually don't, then I'd probably go with that.

On 2 and 3 - the choices open to you are determined by the phase of the flight. You can request direct clearance to a waypoint, change runway or STAR up until you are on with the approach controller; not sure about directly requesting vectors, I don't have the sim running right now. Whatever options there are at the current time will be under 'other requests' on the menu. 

On 4 - this is about the voice set you're using. Each has a list of airline callsigns recorded but coverage varies, and newer airlines are not being added to the existing voices. The 'add-on' voices from Mave are very patchy in their coverage. Simple example: many voice sets don't have the word 'decimal' recorded so when an instruction includes a frequency like 130.75 you will get 'one-three-zero' in the controller voice, then 'DECIMAL' in a different voice that has the word recorded, then 'seven-five' in the original voice again. Very immersion breaking. Same applies to intersection names etc - they are spelled phonetically. Short of moving to TTS I don't see how they will ever fix this. There used to be a tool you could use to record voice sets and I did consider maybe getting my friends to come over and record new voices in return for me cooking them dinner, but apparently the tool no longer works and there's no sign Pro-ATC/X is going to fix it.

Honestly, it seems like the attitude over there is 'shut up, don't complain, you'll get what we give you when we give it to you and like it'. And that sits poorly with me. I don't like being held hostage - I felt that with Ultimate Traffic Live but there was AIG to go to. With Pro-ATC/X, nothing else completely suits my use-case more than it does, bugs and all.

If all else fails, I just ignore ATC and do my own thing. I'd rather cheat and get on the ground than go round in circles. 

Thanks for the info, I may AGAIN go back to Radar Contact 4...


Shom

 

[Win 10 Pro, i7-9700K, EVGA 1080Ti, Crucial 2666 16GB, 2 500GB Samsung EVOs 850/860]

[MSFS 2020 running with PMDG 737, Aerosoft CRJ]

[P3D v5.3 HF2 running with FSLabs A319/320/321, Feelthere E170/175/190/195 v3, PMDG 737 NGXu ,TFDI 717, Aerosoft CRJ Pro, Majestic Dash 8, CS 757 iii, Feelthere ERJ-145, Fly The Maddog X, QW 787, PMDG 777]

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You may want to try Pilot2ATC, it is a great ATC package. The developer provides great support, and fixes broken code when it is reported, and if not, will tell you why not. I was a user of Pro ATC many years ago when the developer walked away from this project for a year before returning. I eventually found this other voice activated ATC software and never looked back!

By the way, P2A supports FSX, P3D, X-Plane, and MSFS2020.
 

Bill Clark

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Windows 10 Pro, Ver 21H2

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I've moved to Pilot2ATC from Pro-ATC/X sometime ago. It has warts but seems to behave more rationally.  The developer is active on line and seems to be engaged and actively maintaining and fixing the program.

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Dave Wadsworth
i9 12900K 5.3Ghz 32G DDR5600 nVidia 3090 
Win 11 21H2 Pro P3DV5.3.2  ASP/ASCA Pilot2ATC FS2Crew/TIR5/CP

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20 hours ago, DWadsworth said:

I've moved to Pilot2ATC from Pro-ATC/X sometime ago. It has warts but seems to behave more rationally.  The developer is active on line and seems to be engaged and actively maintaining and fixing the program.

If only it would use European phraseology, or is that implemented now ?  I had send the author a detalied summary of European phraseology a while ago, but he didn't seem much interested at that time.

Mike


1. A320 home cockpit (FSLabs, Skalarki), P3Dv5  Main PC : I7-8700K, GTX1080Ti

2. FSLabs A3xx, P3Dv5. Gigabyte Aorus 17G YC, I7-10700K, RTX 3080

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2 hours ago, mikealpha said:

If only it would use European phraseology, or is that implemented now ?  I had send the author a detalied summary of European phraseology a while ago, but he didn't seem much interested at that time.

Mike

I wonder if global ATC is just too hard a problem for teams of one or two devs to solve it? If one of the big devs were to tackle it, they might have the resources to cover the various different phraseologies and unusual practices around the globe. I'll be amazed if I ever hear an ATC program ask me to 'pass your message' in the UK. 

An 'open' ATC app - which contains, say, a basic FAA and ICAO implementation but can be extended / customised with voices / phrases and new logic by the end-customer - would be brilliant. You could grow a genuine community of customer-sourced customisations for different countries and scenarios. I've considered taking it on as a project more than once but TBH I just don't know enough about ATC to make even a skeleton app work. 

Sadly, at the current time, I don't see anyone willing to put the effort in to what is not going to be a best-selling add-on compared to random featured airports on the marketplace at You Know Which Sim.

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Temporary sim: 9700K @ 5GHz, 2TB NVMe SSD, RTX 3080Ti, MSFS + SPAD.NeXT

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Oh boy, I flew Korry4 arrival into KLGA today and it would vector me back 180 degrees for some reason (redid the flight and got into the same situation).

KHOU - KAUS with WELEE6 arrival was good only the co-pilot did not contact tower as instructed and I only noticed it when taxing...

Today KDFW - KSAT arrival vectors got me near the airport at around 25,000 feet and then vectored me away from the airport for like 30 miles before turning me back and giving me S turn vectors

Altitude restrictions are not always called by ATC although they do get updated in the flight plan information in the menu (so you can't know unless you check the menu once in a while).

I'm about to give up on this and try PF3 again but I get the feeling I'll be going back to RC4....


Shom

 

[Win 10 Pro, i7-9700K, EVGA 1080Ti, Crucial 2666 16GB, 2 500GB Samsung EVOs 850/860]

[MSFS 2020 running with PMDG 737, Aerosoft CRJ]

[P3D v5.3 HF2 running with FSLabs A319/320/321, Feelthere E170/175/190/195 v3, PMDG 737 NGXu ,TFDI 717, Aerosoft CRJ Pro, Majestic Dash 8, CS 757 iii, Feelthere ERJ-145, Fly The Maddog X, QW 787, PMDG 777]

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3 hours ago, neilhewitt said:

I wonder if global ATC is just too hard a problem for teams of one or two devs to solve it?

I'm wondering about that too. I also never understood why all ATC Addon-Developers bake their own local bread, while a 10 minute google search  reveals enough suitable documents regarding FAA/ICAO phraseology. I'm not a programmer, but theoretically replacing one phrase with another shouldn't be that difficult ?

Mike


1. A320 home cockpit (FSLabs, Skalarki), P3Dv5  Main PC : I7-8700K, GTX1080Ti

2. FSLabs A3xx, P3Dv5. Gigabyte Aorus 17G YC, I7-10700K, RTX 3080

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6 hours ago, mikealpha said:

I'm wondering about that too. I also never understood why all ATC Addon-Developers bake their own local bread, while a 10 minute google search  reveals enough suitable documents regarding FAA/ICAO phraseology. I'm not a programmer, but theoretically replacing one phrase with another shouldn't be that difficult ?

Mike

No, it's not. And most likely every ATC program has an internal engine which can be reprogrammed, it's just that they don't make it available to us to tweak. It's an issue of control. When you allow your users to change things, you then have to support every mistake you make.

If I did this, I'd make it open-source and you'd be on your own ūüôā


Temporary sim: 9700K @ 5GHz, 2TB NVMe SSD, RTX 3080Ti, MSFS + SPAD.NeXT

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