MSFS SU5 (?) change in rudder calibrations

[fppilot 4,335]

Had to decide whether to post this question in Hardware, Controllers -or- here in the MSFS Forum.  Decided on here as this is clearly an MSFS question.

I have just acquired a set of Crosswind 3 rudder pedals.  When I proceeded to set them  up and calibrate them in MSFS I encountered some confusion.  Perhaps after SU5 the calibration for rudder pedals appears to have changed. The calibration box I used previously, which is the calibration box in use in Squirrel's video at the link below, is the more simple box you see at the left.  Now, however, the MSFS sensitivities box for at least Crosswind pedals is the one below on the right.  I had no issue figuring out the brakes, axis x and axis y.  But the calibration for the rudder, the z axis, is testing me. 

Notice the anchoring dot in the middle of that z axis scale.  Then two lines for sensitivity.  A setting (line) for Sensitivity (-) , and a setting (line) for Sensitivity (+).  I have been unable to figure it out.  Has anyone else determined what to do to set sensitivities?  I seem to either be too sensitive on ground steering, or too sensitive on rudder application when airborne.  I am experiencing difficulty finding a happy medium.  Any help would be much appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DXdGaRgnhU&t=817s&ab_channel=Squirrel

 

               

 

[michaelray 236]

I have the crosswind v2 rudder pedals.

I have set the rudder sensitivities + and - both to minus 39. This has decreased the sensitivity around the centre point.

From your graph it looks like you have increased the sensitivity round the centre point. Is this what you were after?

I find most aircraft in MSFS overly sensitive to ruder on the ground. This is why I have backed my sensitivities off around the centre point. However when I find a setting the gives me some measure of fine control on the take-off and roll-out I do find that I lack the fine control I want to cancel out a crosswind in the flare. I just kept adjusting until I found the happiest medium. I feel it is far from perfect though. Not sure if it is a crosswind ruder pedal problem though, maybe something inherent in the MSFS physics.

I find the AS CRJ absolutely the worst aircraft to find a setting that works. The other aircraft I use (FBW A320, DC6, C172, C152) are all liveable with though not ideal.

I didn’t see any change between SU4 and SU5.

Edited August 16, 2021 by michaelray
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[fppilot 4,335]

21 minutes ago, michaelray said:

From your graph it looks like you have increased the sensitivity round the centre point. Is this what you were after?

As I stated in my original post, without at least some guidance on the new two-sided calibration I had no clue about what results would occur.  What I am after is effective ground steering and airborne rudder control that is not over or hyper sensitive.

I recognized that I could establish both sides as the same, either + or -; or instead - and +; or one to one side of the graph and one to the other; or or one to the opposite side of the graph and the other to its opposite.

Versus the earlier calibration dialog the + and - is what threw me for a loop and cast me into multiple scenarios attempting to figure it out.

So you seem to be saying to set each, + and -, to the same value range. Is that what you indicated?  I will try that!

Where by the way is the Asobo guidance on this ????????????????

Michael, thank you for the reply!

[michaelray 236]

35 minutes ago, fppilot said:

So you seem to be saying to set each, + and -, to the same value range. Is that what you indicated?  I will try that!

Yes, so if you look at the graph for selections of both minus 40, this roughly gives 2 units of rudder pedal deflection left or right which gives around 1 unit of rudder travel.

Conversely at both plus 40, 1 unit of rudder pedal deflection gives around (not quite) 2 units of rudder travel.

It is actually the 50% that gives the 2:1 ratio or 1:2 ratio.

I agree, something as important as this and so poorly documented.

Edited August 16, 2021 by michaelray
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[ark 1,288]

1 hour ago, fppilot said:

As I stated in my original post, without at least some guidance on the new two-sided calibration I had no clue about what results would occur.  What I am after is effective ground steering and airborne rudder control that is not over or hyper sensitive.

I recognized that I could establish both sides as the same, either + or -; or instead - and +; or one to one side of the graph and one to the other; or or one to the opposite side of the graph and the other to its opposite.

Versus the earlier calibration dialog the + and - is what threw me for a loop and cast me into multiple scenarios attempting to figure it out.

So you seem to be saying to set each, + and -, to the same value range. Is that what you indicated?  I will try that!

Where by the way is the Asobo guidance on this ????????????????

Michael, thank you for the reply!

I look at it this way: The horizontal axis is rudder pedal deflection, the vertical axis is the resulting rudder or nose wheel deflection. To de-sensitize things a bit you want less change on the vertical axis (rudder or nose wheel deflection) for a given change on the horizontal axis (rudder pedal deflection). So you want to 'flatten' the curve on both sides of the middle (no rudder deflection) position.  So one possibility is to set both the + and - sensitivity to something like -50 as a start and see how that works for you .  Sensitivity + (right side of the graph) and Sensitivity - (left side of the graph) just represent the application of right and left rudder, respectively. Note that the "price you pay" for flattening the graph near the center (no rudder deflection position) is increased sensitivity (compared to the original straight line graph) at large rudder deflections. Also note that if you use FSUIPC7, you can set controller sensitivity curves there as well.

Al 

Edited August 16, 2021 by ark

[Mace 1,896]

2 hours ago, fppilot said:

I have just acquired a set of Crosswind 3 rudder pedals.  When I proceeded to set them  up and calibrate them in MSFS I encountered some confusion.  Perhaps after SU5 the calibration for rudder pedals appears to have changed. The calibration box I used previously, which is the calibration box in use in Squirrel's video at the link below, is the more simple box you see at the left.  Now, however, the MSFS sensitivities box for at least Crosswind pedals is the one below on the right. 

Re: the above, this changed around SU2 or 3 or so.  It's been a little while.  It's for everyone, not just crosswind owners

[gboz 157]

My Crosswinds are down in the twenties for rudder sensitivity.
Seems totally crazy to have to set such low sensitivity to get realistic rudder control around the centre area.
Of course you pay for it at the extremes of movement where the sensitivity goes way up unless you use a big extreme dead zone and lose range.
Never  had this problem with FSX/P3D.

[michaelray 236]

8 minutes ago, gboz said:

Never  had this problem with FSX/P3D.

I agree. I find it the sensitivity differs greatly in MSFS with different aircraft. Not so much in P3D.

[JYW 2,962]

10 hours ago, fppilot said:

I seem to either be too sensitive on ground steering, or too sensitive on rudder application when airborne. 

^^  This.

This is the problem I have in MSFS. In general I find rudder (ground or air) control pretty unpleasant.  It's ironic because generally, X-Plane has great control feel, but ground steering and rudder sensitivity has been a problem since XP10.  FSX always had a dumbed down, easy yaw depiction, which felt inactive and assisted.   It was still the best sim for ground steering though!

Now, we have (IMHO) rudder and yaw depiction in MSFS that is worse than X-Plane's problematic depiction! 😁

Still, at least we have dedent, gradual toe brakes in MSFS - in XP11, even with an axis the brakes tend to be off or hard on, and it's hard to come to any stop without an abrupt jerk.

PS... For the record, I love MSFS and XP11.  😎

Edited August 16, 2021 by JYW

[fppilot 4,335]

I've settled in for the z axis at -45L and -45R. That worked very well for a 172 flight today, but seemed lethargic for the G58 Baron yesterday.  Might this be the MSFS ground friction issue rearing it's not-so handsome head? 

Edited August 18, 2021 by fppilot