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JYW

1 year in, what's your general view on payware aircraft??

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........ I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed in the overall quality level of most (not all) payware aircraft I have bought.  I think we still don't have a lot of choices and there seems to be a lot of lesser known developers in the space at the moment, and a lack of names that can be trusted for consistent quality.

The Just Flight Arrows and Warrior are great - zero complaints. I'm also pleased overall with most aspects of the quality of the Sim works CH701, although feel it's overpriced for what it is.  The IRIS J160/170 is quite good overall but let down in some areas of texturing, and in the lack of some immersive sounds (doors opening, some switches, sound changes when door is opened, etc).   The Carenado C182 is pretty awful IMHO, just doesn't fly right and interior engine sounds are dire.  The Carenado Seneca is nice overal but the flight dynamics seem far too twitchy and 'lumpy' to me (although I have only used it post-SU5, so don't know if SU5 perhaps broke the FDE).  The Asobo 103 solo is decent and was cheap; but more of a addon default aircraft.

The AT Simulations Cri Cri has grass coming through the base of the fuselage into the aircraft - I'll leave that there.  The BT Studios Kitfox is "less than default" standards of quality and features, in all areas. (You cannot even cut the engine without using the default key shortcut).

The worst two for me, are the NextGen EMB110, which is without doubt the joint biggest waste of money I've spent in MSFS to date.  I get a huge performance drop when looking at the (bland, poorly textured) Main Panel.  The engine sounds are from a Yamaha 50cc moped (x2).  Again the texturing quality in that plane to my eyes is sub-FS9 quality.  The AP behaves oddly.   And joint worse (IMHO) is the Lionheart TB-21.... my word, what a mess.  It uses default Asobo piston engine sounds, there are no switch, door or immersion sounds, the texturing is truly sub-standard, and the sim performance is still quite poor.

I don't have the PMDG DC-6 (partly because the aircraft doesn't interest me) nor the Aerosoft CRJ, as I've generally been pretty put off wasting any more money on sub-standard payware aircraft for MSFS.   (As a comparison, my last 2 addons bought for XP11 were the Aerobask Phenom 300 and the ToLiss A319!).

I spend most of my time in the sim in the fantastic freeware modified; DA62, DA40, C208, TBM, G36 Turbo, CJ4, Cubs, VL-3 and C152.    Even the absolute default C172, C172 G1000, Baron G58, Pipistrel Virus, Diamond DV20, Diamond DA40TDi and SR22 are much more enjoyable to fly and be in, than the vast majority of my payware aircraft.

Is it just me?

Edited by JYW
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Bill

UK NPPL(A, M)

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1 minute ago, bean_sprout said:

The Carenado Seneca is pretty sweet if you are looking for a twin turbo.

https://www.carenado.com/sitecarenado/product/pa34t-seneca-v-msfs2020/

Cheers

bs

Ooh, I forgot that one! I've got it, thanks.  That would definitely be one of the better ones.  I want the Mooney but will not buy an addon that hasn't been updated for SU5 (although that's a whole other topic). 😄

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Bill

UK NPPL(A, M)

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The general view is, we're still waiting.  I don't really count the CRJ.  

It's looking like it will come down to the PMDG 737 or the FENIX A320 for the first 'full featured' transport category aircraft.  Maybe we'll see those by the end of the year...hopefully. 

The more time goes by however, it seems like a stretch for PMDG to make the 37, let alone a wide body in addition to the the 37 by the end of the year, like they are/were thinking.

What that also means however, is that the core MSFS WX engine needs to be tightened up quite a bit in order to round out the sim for the most part.  GSX would be great to have by then also.

Edited by Jeff Nielsen
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Jeff D. Nielsen (KMCI)

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The A1R Design Ryan ST-A is a hidden gem that I don't feel got enough attention. Tons of character at a respectable price.

I still don't think there's a better overall plane than the WT CJ4. I would happily pay expensive payware prices for it.

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I'd say, better than I expected. After the initial release, I had doubts that MSFS could/would have the high level aircraft we were hoping for. This doubt has been removed by several really good aircraft options. Complex transport aircraft will be a high hurdle but I think these are just a matter of time.

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11 minutes ago, kiwikat said:

The A1R Design Ryan ST-A is a hidden gem that I don't feel got enough attention. Tons of character at a respectable price.

I still don't think there's a better overall plane than the WT CJ4. I would happily pay expensive payware prices for it.

Agreed.

I feel like there are a lot of piston singles out there...they look pretty nice but still use default systems and autopilot if applicable.

It's sort of just what happens with this first wave of payware.  No dev has truly mastered the flight modelling and or has found ways to implement tons of custom code.

I really enjoy the CJ4 with WT mod as well.  It's probably the best all around addon to date.  Though some of the default planes are starting to shape up nice with user mods and the recently introduced WT G1000 NXi.  That unit is approaching real world capability (in the navigation department at least).

As for payware I hear a lot of good things about the DC6 but it's not really my type either.  I was enjoying the Carenado Mooney until SU5 broke it - again it uses default systems etc IMHO it's overpriced.  20 USD would have been better - as I'm pretty sure some of the parts are ported from p3d hehe.

Otherwise yeah I love that C700 Longitude but many buttons don't work and aside from the WT G3000 (which is now a step below the NXi in terms of navigation), the systems are majorly lacking.  Being a Premium Deluxe aircraft I was a little bummed about paying more and just having a pretty shell.  Same with the Asobo Cirrus - basically worthless until the WT G1000 NXi came along.

The JustFlight Turbo Arrow - pretty nice plane, enjoyable flight characteristics.  Decent graphics - just a notch below Carenado maybe.  I know that one probably shares a few items from p3d but I don't really blame them or Carenado, for that matter.

All this to say I'm fairly pleased with what we have out in a years time.  But I've lowered my expectations as this is a brand new sim.  (Or almost lol - we all know there's 10 year old code lying around).  I believe we'll get there but some devs are still waiting for a more stable sim and more SDK support.

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Has anyone thought of doing a turbo mod for the default Baron 58?

That was a lovely aircraft in FS2004 LOL

Tony

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22 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

Agreed.

 

All this to say I'm fairly pleased with what we have out in a years time.  But I've lowered my expectations as this is a brand new sim.  (Or almost lol - we all know there's 10 year old code lying around).  I believe we'll get there but some devs are still waiting for a more stable sim and more SDK support.

Yeah, that's the other side of the coin.  It's only been a year and look where we are.  Could it have been better?  Sure, but it's still light years ahead of the days of old.

If PMDG and FENIX make it this year, that will be awesome.

Not to get off topic, but the payware scenery side has been really great.  I dare say we almost have all the major airports as well as some new ones we didn't have for P3D that took years in P3D to come out, and we still have EHAM, LGAV, EBBR, EFHK, NZAA, CYYZ, UUDD, URSS all coming out this year (soon) by major A tier developers. There's more I forgot about, I'm sure.

All in all, I guess it's better then we think it is.  We just want it all now!  🙂 

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Jeff D. Nielsen (KMCI)

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I'm going to get hate for this, but MSFS did not reach my payware expectation. Let me explain.

Before release ASOBO hinted at legacy physics and compatibility with FSX. PMDG stated the 737 would be out by December 2020.

I may have been naive, or maybe I just misread everything the devs posted, but that was my impression when I bought the game a year ago.

Neither impression was accurate. I accept responsibility for being foolish, but if honesty is expected, then MSFS didn't reach my expectations.

It will eventually, though.

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1 minute ago, WestAir said:

I'm going to get hate for this, but MSFS did not reach my payware expectation. Let me explain.

Before release ASOBO hinted at legacy physics and compatibility with FSX. PMDG stated the 737 would be out by December 2020.

I may have been naive, or maybe I just misread everything the devs posted, but that was my impression when I bought the game a year ago.

Neither impression was accurate. I accept responsibility for being foolish, but if honesty is expected, then MSFS didn't reach my expectations.

It will eventually, though.

I don't remember ever seeing PMDG stating that the 737 would be ready by December of 2020. I think a lot of people were surprised when they said it might be released before the end of this year.

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1 minute ago, mwilk said:

I don't remember ever seeing PMDG stating that the 737 would be ready by December of 2020. I think a lot of people were surprised when they said it might be released before the end of this year.

Yeah, I don't remember 2020 either.  I thought they said this year for the 37 and possibly the 777 also.  That all seems very ambitious to me.  If it happens, then that will be awesome, but that seems really quick.

@WestAir  No hate.  More than 1 thing can be true.  There are many areas that I wanted to have shored up as far as the sim goes by this time that have not happened yet.  Other areas of the sim's development are moving extremely fast.  Sometimes it's hard to keep up. 

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Jeff D. Nielsen (KMCI)

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3 hours ago, WestAir said:

Before release ASOBO hinted at legacy physics and compatibility with FSX. PMDG stated the 737 would be out by December 2020.

I'm pretty sure PMDG said no such thing.  In fact, their initial pronouncements on MSFS highlighted that it would take quite a bit of time to develop for the platform.

And, yes, there is a "Legacy" flight model in MSFS, but I don't think that anyone would be satisfied with porting an FSX payware aircraft over, assuming it were even possible, if it could only be used with Legacy mode.

My view is that payware development is, if anything, going along a bit quicker than I was expecting.  I thoroughly expected the first year to be dire -- it takes time to learn a whole new SDK, particularly one that was being constantly updated with new and necessary features -- and that MSFS would be merely a "VFR simulator" until now.  Instead, we already have the PMDG DC-6 and the Aerosoft CRJ (and, for those of us who recall the saga of that airplane's development in FSX and P3D, did anyone really expect it to be done in less than a year, as it turned out to be?).  And PMDG continues to work on its Boeings, with signs that they'll all be out by the end of 2022, and maybe the 737 by the end of this year.  And, although it's not payware, don't overlook the mods from FBW, Heavy, Salty, etc.

Frankly, I think my worst-case scenario last year would have been for nothing of quality to have been issued by now, plus developers like PMDG bailing due to difficulties with the SDK.  Instead, we have more quality add-ons than expected, and more work being done by the "heavy hitters" in flight simulation.  Overall, I'm relatively pleased.

Edited by JDWalley
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James David Walley

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I’m pretty sure that they did hint at a Dec 20 release somewhere around the time they announced the buyers of the new NG will get a discount for MSFS.

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