1 year in, what's your general view on payware aircraft??

[EvidencePlz 276]

 

3 minutes ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

LOL...you did 'research'? 

Here is just a few of the issues described by one of the Just Flight developers himself (Delta558):

No adverse yaw: Carenado Arrow goes on sale... - Page 10 - Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) - The AVSIM Community

Yaw oscillations problem 1: https://community.justflight.com/post/11557

Yaw oscillations problem 2: https://community.justflight.com/post/11558

Sudden veering on takeoff: Sudden veering on takeoff | Just Flight Community 

[Jeff Nielsen 1,250]

4 minutes ago, EvidencePlz said:

 

Here is just a few of the issues described by one of the Just Flight developers himself (Delta558):

No adverse yaw: Carenado Arrow goes on sale... - Page 10 - Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) - The AVSIM Community

Yaw oscillations problem 1: https://community.justflight.com/post/11557

Yaw oscillations problem 2: https://community.justflight.com/post/11558

Sudden veering on takeoff: Sudden veering on takeoff | Just Flight Community 

Where's the surveys?  That's what I really want to see.

In any case, as long as you don't buy anything, you should be good to go.

[VFXSimmer 1,302]

45 minutes ago, EvidencePlz said:

 

Here is just a few of the issues described by one of the Just Flight developers himself (Delta558):

No adverse yaw: Carenado Arrow goes on sale... - Page 10 - Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) - The AVSIM Community

Yaw oscillations problem 1: https://community.justflight.com/post/11557

Yaw oscillations problem 2: https://community.justflight.com/post/11558

Sudden veering on takeoff: Sudden veering on takeoff | Just Flight Community 

That’s it? A minor issue with adverse yaw?

And one post further down in the second link you give, Just Flight’s dev says there is a fix coming from Asobo in short order.

You might find peace in your pursuit of the perfect sim by looking up the definition of the word gestalt.

[PIC007 82]

As a FSX 'power' user...I too am disappointed in the current state of affairs in 2020.... In FSX I bought darn near every plane, both GA and tubeliners, that interested me, and that was a LOT of planes. In 2020 I have not seen a single plane I want, nada, but I am being patient since I know the SDK has been giving fits to addon devs.

I used to fly every single day, with a group, and we had a ball..... now, just about the only time I fire up 2020 is when there is an update, and even then I wait a few days just to see what is broke before downloading it. I think the fire has gone out. 😞

[JDWalley 354]

40 minutes ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

Where's the surveys?  That's what I really want to see.

In any case, as long as you don't buy anything, you should be good to go.

Interesting that three of the four bits of "evidence" he presents come from the same poster.  (I could also add that said poster grants that the current version of MSFS is better than any previous iteration of the program -- which, from the context, seems to be referring all the way back to 1982, not just Asobo's work -- and that there's an update to the flight model coming that should improve the issue.)  I will grant that the "weathervaning" issue on takeoff is indeed there for me, but I'm hoping it will be corrected in future updates.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,250]

3 minutes ago, VFXSimmer said:

That’s it? A minor issue with adverse yaw?

And one post further down in the second link you give, Just Flight’s dev says there is a fix coming from Asobo in short order.

You might find peace in your pursuit of the perfect sim by looking up the definition of the word gestalt.

ASOBO has already addressed his 4th item also...several times during Q&As.  It's an issue with the ground friction and XWind factors

[JYW 1,875]

53 minutes ago, EvidencePlz said:

Sudden veering on takeoff

I must admit, the sudden veering on take off really bugs me.  It's similar to X-Plane's unstable ground handling. For all it's antiquity, it's a problem FSX never had!  I wholly appreciate torque effect, wind, etc, etc, but I believe the veering (which feels like the wheels, rather than from the flight surfaces) is greatly overdone, in both MSFS and XP11.  (Can't speak for P3D as never used it).

[Jeff Nielsen 1,250]

3 minutes ago, JYW said:

I must admit, the sudden veering on take off really bugs me.  It's similar to X-Plane's unstable ground handling. For all it's antiquity, it's a problem FSX never had!  I wholly appreciate torque effect, wind, etc, etc, but I believe the veering (which feels like the wheels, rather than from the flight surfaces) is greatly overdone, in both MSFS and XP11.  (Can't speak for P3D as never used it).

It was there in P3D, just not as severe as the XPL 'drift'...lol.  I can't believe you guys don't notice it on landing also.  Everyone always talks about takeoff, but never the landings.  You should watch some streams on twitch...haha.  You'll see it all the time.

[JYW 1,875]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

It was there in P3D, just not as severe as the XPL 'drift'...lol.  I can't believe you guys don't notice it on landing also.  Everyone always talks about takeoff, but never the landings.  You should watch some streams on twitch...haha.  You'll see it all the time.

Yes agreed, absolutely, notice it on landing too!   It's especially bad in the taildraggers.

[Dominique_K 9,914]

No, not disappointed.

I am not a compulsive buyer. What I buy, I fly for months. I am pretty satisfied with the payware I purchased : DC-6, Flyingiron Spitfire, Milviz Corsair. They delivered what I expected from them.

A long practice of simming makes me steer away from the likes of Aeroplane Haven, Lionheart, Carenado. The forthcoming Skymaster is a good example, I have her in FSX/P3D, I will not buy her in MFS... Enough said. And I am definitely not buying  in the « good enough for the price » category.  I don’t buy aircraft on a quality/price ratio. 

 In conclusion, I have payware that already give me tons of fun and I can wait for what I want with the unexpected good surprises that come from time to time (like the L-39 or the An-2 in FSX).

 

 

 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,791]

1 hour ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

It was there in P3D, just not as severe as the XPL 'drift'...lol.  I can't believe you guys don't notice it on landing also.  Everyone always talks about takeoff, but never the landings.  You should watch some streams on twitch...haha.  You'll see it all the time.

In MSFS it is always there but the extent depends on the aircraft.

For example, I have been flipping backwards and forwards between the AH c140 and the new  Iris Grob 115 a fair bit today and it is definitely more noticeable landing the tricycle Grob than the tailwheel c140. The opposite of what you would expect.   Though the c140 is extraordinarily forgiving and well behave for a MSFS tail dragger.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[himmelhorse 1,272]

5 hours ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

Tell us how you really feel!  C'mon now, don't hold back.

Could NOT have said that any better myself.  Great history lesson.

One does not reasonably expect any B.S. from Chock. He had a mighty big hammer and a small nail which he hits on the head every time. An incredible contributor.

Tony

[SAS443 1,543]

4 hours ago, EvidencePlz said:

I wasn't referring to edge cases but just the normal, basic scenarios. I also didn't claim that any flight simulator can simulate a real world flight 1:1.

Hi EvidenzePlz. Were you the one who expects adverse yaw while in a constant bank turn in this old thread?

Sorry for late reply: In general, for a 30 degree turn, adverse yaw appear when entering a bank and exiting the bank, not while holding it since ailerons should be neutral. therefore:  a constant 30 degree turn should require minimum amount of rudder input.

If you have additional aerodynamic questions, there are several knowledgeable posters on Avsim who will gladly help you on your journey to understand the basics in the principles of flight.

(Disclaimer: we all know MSFS has flaws in flight modelling, but it is certainly not THAT bad as the poster suggests)

Edited August 23, 2021 by SAS443

[andy1252 3,379]

Well . . .

short answer to the original question - not enough of 'em.

Unlike all you serious pilots out there, I just want something that looks great, that I can get off the ground without spending days figuring out how to start the thing, and then doesn't decide to burst into flame because I didn't perform some imaginary function on its imaginary engines. I realise that makes me "not a serious simmer", but then I have probably bought at least a couple of hundred payware aircraft in the last five years for FSX, P3D, XP and now MSFS, so I may just be more serious than you think <grin>

As Chock said, these are early days. And we are getting the usual mixed bag in terms of quality. I'm sure lots more will continue to be released and will continue to vary in quality. I don't know enough about the background to producing aircraft models to really comment here, but I assume that once the SDK settles down to something like a proper working kit, we will hopefully see a burst of old and new favourites appearing on the scene, both payware and freeware. A wide variety of halfway reasonable freeware is one of the things I miss. There is some wonderful freeware/donationware out there already - the likes of the Grravel, H135 etc - but there's not the variety yet that we have had in the past. I have (and miss!) just about all the various heavy transports the US has produced, for example, and would love to see such things again in MSFS. They don't have to be PMDG-level models, just recognisable and flyable.

But yes, there are good things to say about some of the payware that has come out, and there are things to word not allowed (female dog - not allowed? cheese - I despair) about.

Plus ca change . .

Edited August 23, 2021 by andy1252
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[Chock 17,765]

6 hours ago, GoranM said:

This is incorrect, and there are many in the XP corner of flight simming who know exactly what happened.  It is not the reason PMDG left.  But that's another forum post.  

(For those who are contemplating calling me a troll for this 1, small correction in someones post, don't bother.  You will be added to my ignore list without reply.)

Nope, what I wrote is not incorrect. Read what I actually wrote rather than using it as an excuse to post your rumours. To reiterate, I wrote that PMDG went on record to say that was why they would not be doing that, and this they did indeed do. Now, whether you and some other people think this was not their real reason, is another matter, but that is nevertheless what they stated. So please don't try to 'correct me' for writing something which was not incorrect, because doing that does indeed make you a 'troll', as you call it.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Chock