1 minute ago, Greazer said:

however they are now competing with a multi billion dollar company with hundreds of geniuses and almost infinite resources.

It's hard to take you seriously, but I'll try in this case.  

I've seen this before.  It's Microsoft.  They're actually a trillion dollar company.  With just a bit over 200 developers using legacy code and building on it.  

First of all, it doesn't matter, 1 bit, how much money Microsoft has when it comes to MSFS.  Because at the accounting desk, you can bet your house there's a team of accountants making sure every single dollar is accounted for when it comes to spending a LIMITED budget on a flight sim that was cancelled twice.  There's nothing infinite about the budget for a flight sim.  Especially where shareholders are concerned.  If I knew my Microsoft shares were being wholly allocated to MSFS, I'd get rid of them ASAP.  

If there are, let's say, 300 developers behind MSFS, multiply that by about $200 000 per developer (average) per year, for 8 years. That's a lot of money MS will need to get back for the MSFS investment.  And that's just the start.  They flew out influencers to Seattle.  They handed out merchandise.  They paid youtubers like Jayz2cents, iJustine and DrDisrespect to advertise it.  Word around youtube is DrDisrespect's asking price for endorsements is upwards of $50 000 per product per video.  iJustine charges about $30 000.  

8 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Microsoft are so big and powerful they don't give a rats about a little flight sim conference.

Size and power doesn't mean a thing.  It's the product that has to do the talking.  I've seen $200 million movies bomb at the box office.  All the marketing in the world couldn't save them.  

10 minutes ago, Greazer said:

If it doesn't include the musts (which I have already posted here) then the sim will be a No go.

🤷‍♂️

And no one is stopping you.  

13 minutes ago, GoranM said:

"If".

The "if" is on the updates, first release will be glitchy, there is too much changing in one go to catch everything important.

13 minutes ago, GoranM said:

they try to implement in the mobile version.

The mobile version was getting updates every few weeks, last was mid April and added the SR22 to the fleet.

13 minutes ago, GoranM said:

There will always be a userbase.

There is a userbase, it could and should be 18 times the size.

14 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I'm confused about the term "normal people".

Normal people don't have the patience of a pilot, the technical skills of Neo and the disposable income of Elon Musk to hire someone to build a home cockpit. Enjoying XP currently requires all three.

17 minutes ago, GoranM said:

What does a normal person want?  MSFS or X-Plane?  Everyone has different tastes.  Which is something some MSFS users find impossible to grasp.

They don't think about it that much, they just wander through life doing things that please them, the trick is really about finding out how not to displease them.

20 minutes ago, GoranM said:

What has been promised will attract the people who are interested in them.  Trees moving in the wind is a take it or leave it thing for me.  I couldn't care less about that. It's extremely cool to have, but I can easily live without it.  For other people, they see it as a "FINALLY" element.  Helicopter enthusiasts will obviously see a need for it.  

XP11 already has more than the competition, pretty sure none of these things are what makes the likes of Scotchegg "not an active XP11 user", nor are they likely to make him one, its really people like him and Greazer we should be listening to and making sure LR hear what the majority have to say.

People like Greazer and Scotch want something that LR isn't interested in providing.  And for that reason, no one is stopping them from going to whatever competition is out there.  This is Austin Meyer's X-Plane.  Not Greazers or Scotcheggs.  

I prefer Lambourghini's over Ferrari's.  I'm not going to go to Ferrari and tell them, "If you make your cars more like Lambourghini's, I'll be more interested in them."

Try to imagine the reaction I would get.

 

On a positive note as I said previously at least, now, everyone including LR seems to accept that there is a need for XP12 and that XP11 just isn't good enough for 2021. This time last year and for months afterwards the XP diehards were seriously claiming that XP11 was vastly superior to MSFS. But from my own experience I could see that it wasn't. Roll on XP12.

Edited August 25, 20214 yr by jarmstro

49 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I prefer Lambourghini's over Ferrari's.  

Please stop. I have already stated what my expectations are. If LR don't deliver then I simply don't buy, it's that simple. 

Just now, Greazer said:

Please stop.

That's funny.

1 minute ago, Greazer said:

I have already stated what my expectations are.

We all know.  Coral in the water.  Rodents running around the scenery.  etc...  You've told us more times than we can count.

1 minute ago, Greazer said:

If LR don't deliver then I simply don't buy, it's that simple. 

Who's holding a gun to your head??

This isn't a department store.  You don't need to constantly make announcements like this.

 

37 minutes ago, GoranM said:

People like Greazer and Scotch want something that LR isn't interested in providing.

That's not for us to decide. I'd say LR definitely do want a larger userbase, understanding what the larger userbase wants was the orgs job by default, but to date the org has done everything they can to silence anyone with a criticism. 

There is also no signs of improving, the top pinned post on the XP11 forum is still XP11.50r3.

Turning all that around "might" just need the lighting and clouds fixing up, personally I think the main things holding XP back are more mundane things like the onboarding and ubiquitous toxicity towards users that just want a flightsim that doesnt CTD on final.

 

Woah Woah.... You need a home cockpit to enjoy XP? News to me. I logged 1200 hours in MSFS since release. I have Logged probably about 500 in P3D and I started with XP only a couple of months ago but I am enjoying the heck out of it... Truthfully, with all the issues of MSFS since SU5, I have been flying XP more than any other sim. Based on Microsoft's announcement today (they are now doing a Reno Air Racing expansion... that's on top of the Top Gun expansion. And the sim's ATC still thinks you are anywhere between 300-3000 feet above or below where you actually are...), I am way more excited about the future of XP than the future of MSFS. 

I own literally almost every aircraft commercially released for MSFS, but the direction of that platform and the team's ability to put out a remotely stable product is a HUGE concern for me. The XBoxification of that platform is going to continue and we are gonna see more and more stuff to please gamers who are bored too quickly and have no desire to learn any procedures or anything about the aircraft they think they are excited about. I mean, have you seen the official MSFS Forums lately? 80% of the discussion is about graphics and how better/worse it is since SU5, 10% is about how everyone wants a career mode, and the remaining 10 are about things that actually pertain to flight simulation. That is a HUGE concern. Because Microsoft listens to these people. And they will continue to listen to them. It's the only thing that they can do - they ARE the focus. I am afraid that the more time goes by, the more we will see that the very basics of flight are not being fixed. I love graphics and all. It's great. The world is beautiful. But I can't fly it without wanting to throw my humble Thrustmaster joystick at the wall when the altitude is wrong, and the sim inserts imaginary waypoints into every flight plan. I am literally just flying to test the aircraft right now, waiting for the major issues introduced with SU5 to be fixed. It's not enjoyable at all. I know it will get better, but... for now, XP 11 brings me so much more satisfaction to fly. And I have been with MSFS since Day 1 - I haven't really flown XP seriously until a couple of months ago!

I did discover a major lapse in XP - an issue that doesn't exist in P3D and MSFS - I tried to fly out of Svalbard tonight and discovered that XP doesn't have data for a lot of the Arctic and Antarctic regions. That data exists in both P3D and MSFS. Granted, some of it isn't pretty, but at the very least, SOMETHING is there... they really need to fix that with XP NextGen. 

From what I've been able to glimpse from the few lights that shed some faint info about what XP12 may become is that the new version of the simulator will bring good enhancements in the representation of the Earth as well as the sky, light according to date/time and geographical coordinates, Moon ephemeris and probably even other planetary objects and constellations ... 

Weather modelling enhancements are also to be expected.

Honestly me thinks the future of X-Plane is more about what  those users who care for the realism of flight dynamics and other aspects of aviation, flying, even probably space flight for orbital flights, look for.

I see X-Plane moving more towards a platform of serious simulation while I observe the addons ASOBO / MS are announcing for their upcoming updates and feel they mainly appeal to the xBox market... Reminded me a bit ( what I yesterday saw announced for the upcoming updates ) of what happened in times of MS FLIGHT when they started releasing cockpitless aircraft 😕

Of course serious developers need to win money, need to accept the rules, and there are also very promising projects like the already available and superb FBW A320N, the Fénix A320, etc... but my feel is that XP12 will certainly appeal a lot more to a guy like me who can easily give away photogrammetry in exchange for more details and, above all, a sound / robust / appellative for 3rd party devs platform enabling them to offer detailed addons like some already available for X-Plane.

For me this "hiatus" in flight simulation, caused mainly by the MFS effect, has it's time, and something more interesting will happen after XP12 becomes available, even in early beta.

And this is from a guy who keeps installing and uninstalling his sims, and MFS is no exception 🙂

I created the thread more as a tease for those who come here and post their thoughts and sometimes their emotions too, because emotions are the kind of stuff I live in most of the time 🤣

This Emotional Uninstaller Beast is awaiting to see Austin shining in his usual speech and gestures as he debuts XP12 to the community, unveils something about the future of the platform, creates new hope for simmers looking forward into a serious alternative to xBox...

At the same time I have to confess I was disappointed with the way they're willing to treat stuff like giving users the ability to update the magnetic variation tables for Earth in order to keep in cycle with reality and the navdata updates... And other stuff... but heck... that's me being picky maybe..

Edited August 25, 20214 yr by jcomm

The same old discussions in this thread probably highlights exactly why fewer people are taking part in this forum as of late... Completely dominated by the same 3-4 users and the same discussions that ultimately end up nowhere except a locked thread.

For those who really think XP12 will be a waste of time, then move on and use another sim, I just don't get what makes you stick to something you don't like. Personally, if I don't like a game and see a future for it, I stop playing it, uninstall it and move on.  I don't think trying to prove a point over and over again on every post is going to make Austin or his team do something differently.

 

Thats why I hardly venture here, just the same people spewing the same garbage. Its enough to make anyone puke, And as Goran pointed out and I have many time, MS have investors wonder what will happen when they want there returns. And honestly, if the moderators want any one to come here and get some new life in this forum, they just need to exclude a few posters from this forum, it pretty much like trying to keep a dead body alive,

6 hours ago, GoranM said:

I haven't had much interaction with Phillip, but Ben and Sid are next level genius.

I followed some of Phillip comments and blog posts way back, and he's certainly up there with the other 2. 😁

He's done an incredible work with the default systems/avionics/GPS!

Austin hires the best people for the job.  He always has.  

I have met Phillip once, in Las Vegas at the expo.  He's a very likeable and happy guy.