We've become step children...

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

19 hours ago, birdguy said:

I suppose some of you also got the notice that Orbx has released mesh for Alaska for MSFS.  I would like such a mesh for Alaska myself for the simulator I have already filled with over 3,000 dollars worth of Orbx scenery.  I feel betrayed.  Has Orbx abandoned those of us who have not been baptized and converted to MSFS?  FSX and P3D and X-Plane got Orbx to where it is now.  But the shiny new object and flashing skirt has redirected their attention.

 

I understand the finances and the follow the money but certainly a bit of loyalty to those who made Orbx what it is today shouldn't be abandoned.

 

Don't tell me to send this to Orbx.  I am not allowed to post anything over there.  I've been banned for several years now and it looks like a lifetime ban.  But I remain a loyal customer and have purchased every scenery for FSX and P3D to date.  I would like to get more but I am not jumping on the MSFS wagon.  I'm too old to start over again.  How about it JV?  How about some crumbs for the step children left behind?

 

Noel

 

Before and even after MSFS it was the FSX guys writing them (those were the most hostile I've ever seen), before that it was the FS9 guys, etc.

The bottom line is that ORBX, or my company, or other developers don't make the desions as to which sims they will develope software for.  The market is the deciding factor.  Put another way, it's we who decide. 

Since MSFS has brought the largest market increase since FSX was released, it's natural they would develop for that more so than other sims.  You can't blame them, because this is how they feed their families and if that isn't important to you, then I'll add it is how they grow their business and have funds to develope more products (yeah, it actually takes a LOT of investment to develope many flight sim products, most people would be shocked).

I do understand the investment in a simulator.  I've been in this community for over 40 years and I had a staggering personal financial investment in FSX before moving to P3D, and some day I will be able to say the same for MSFS.  It's progress, and from the position of what's good for the hobby it's all be wonderful progress.

My very best wishes to you my friend.

 

 

[dave2013 1,123]

4 hours ago, Reader said:

This is simply not true.

 

Mmm.  That's odd, because a few years ago I could have swore I bought terrain mesh for about $60 called FTX Global 2018, a product that was developed in partnership with Pilot's and advertised by ORBX.

Please get your facts straight.

Dave

[birdguy 3,943]

I can still buy a leaf spring for a Studebaker from any of four part's stores for 89.88 to 195.58

I can still buy a carburetor for a 1982 Ford Bronco from several parts stores.

I can still buy fuel pump for a 2000 GMC Sierra from several parts stores.

So just because your old doesn't mean you are discarded to the trash heap.

Lots of people, including myself, still fly FS2004 and FSX.  And a whole lot more P3D.

I know the shiny new object is attractive to many, but not all.  Are those who are not attracted relegated to the trash heap?

Noel

[psolk 3,037]

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

I can still buy a leaf spring for a Studebaker from any of four part's stores for 89.88 to 195.58

I can still buy a carburetor for a 1982 Ford Bronco from several parts stores.

I can still buy fuel pump for a 2000 GMC Sierra from several parts stores.

So just because your old doesn't mean you are discarded to the trash heap.

Lots of people, including myself, still fly FS2004 and FSX.  And a whole lot more P3D.

I know the shiny new object is attractive to many, but not all.  Are those who are not attracted relegated to the trash heap?

Noel

And none of those are "new"produicts...  You can still buy all the previously released P3D add-ons you like, same with most FSX and FS9 no different than you can still buy the parts you mentioned.  All of those products were "developed" years ago, in some instances they may be recreations but no one is involved in new development or new projects for those platforms out of loyalty are they?  Nope... You are confusing product availability and product development.

Your argument however valid is purely emotional and you wouldn't ask GMC to keep making new products for the 21 year old Sierra.  They don't have a team dedicated to retrofitting the latest Nav unit into the Sierra out of loyalty to customers 😉  

Edited August 25, 2021 by psolk

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

23 minutes ago, psolk said:

And none of those are "new"produicts...  You can still buy all the previously released P3D add-ons you like, same with most FSX and FS9 no different than you can still buy the parts you mentioned.  All of those products were "developed" years ago, in some instances they may be recreations but no one is involved in new development or new projects for those platforms out of loyalty are they?  Nope... You are confusing product availability and product development.

Your argument however valid is purely emotional and you wouldn't ask GMC to keep making new products for the 21 year old Sierra.  They don't have a team dedicated to retrofitting the latest Nav unit into the Sierra out of loyalty to customers 😉  

Very well stated, that's it exactly.

This does not preclude someone from making FSX products for their own use and then later selling them to the other FSX users.  But investment into a product from which someone / some company would not find profitable is not something developers jump at doing.  Now (and I've said this a few times over the years), if someone would like to pony up the development cost for a new product, there are plenty of developers who would create it and the license would be the investors, and they could market/sell it to the community - in fact I could list it on one of the largest flight sim online stores to get the product some very wide exposure. Happy to do so!

In other words, if someone feels THAT strongly about product development for FSX/P3D then pony right on up and I'll arrange the introduction to several excellentg individual flight sim developers who create the product for them.  This is an honest and genuine offer, but I do understand that the chances of someone doing this is very, very small for the same reasons we see dwindling product development for FSX/P3D (I still fly P3D by the way).

I also wish to make it clear that I understand and truly appreciate Noel's sentiment on this, I truly do.

 

My humble and most sincere best wishes to both you guys!

 

 

 

[birdguy 3,943]

Just because something is old, and P3Dv5.2 isn't that old, doesn't mean you crumple it up and toss it away so the owner has to buy the latest and greatest. 

Some of us old timers living on a fixed income can't afford to buy the newest product when it comes out and a computer upgrade to make it work.  I didn't grow up in a throw-away society where the newest product makes last year's obsolete so I can't relate to the young Turks who abandon the old.  I can still afford whatever Orbx has to offer me in the way of scenery if they ever do offer anything again.

This morning my wife asked me what I wanted for supper tonight.  I told her to open a can of Campbells Chicken Noodle Soup and make a grilled cheese sandwich with the old sharp cheddar cheese, not the new synthetic stuff.  Mom used to make that for my brother and I 80 years ago.

So go ahead and scold me for wanting my not so old simulator to still be supported.  There are a lot of us out here still hanging on to it.

Meanwhile I'll sit here in my hermit cave and play with the simulator I have.  Not pretending to be a real world pilot.  I've been there and done that.  But to play a game that gives me enjoyment with what I already have.

Noel (I know when I'm beaten.  I surrender; the world has passed me by)

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by birdguy

[Reader 2,009]

6 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Mmm.  That's odd, because a few years ago I could have swore I bought terrain mesh for about $60 called FTX Global 2018, a product that was developed in partnership with Pilot's and advertised by ORBX.

Please get your facts straight.

Dave

There is nothing wrong with my facts.
You stated

Quote

It wasn't too long ago that they were developing high-res mesh for the whole world for around $60.

As you pointed out yourself, the product was produced by Pilot's and sold at the FlightSim Store and by Pilot's themselves.
The only connection with Orbx was that it was their recommended standard and the one used to develop their products.
Noel is upset that Orbx are developing mesh for a simulator that he doesn't have, but apart from a couple of freeware offerings,
Orbx have never made a solely mesh product, until now.

 

 

[W2DR 1,859]

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

Meanwhile I'll sit here in my hermit cave and play with the simulator I have.

You're not alone Noel. Many of us are doing the same. I'd like to tell you what I think about "the latest and the greatest" but the WNA-thingy won't let me do it. For anyone who enjoys FLYING, the "old stuff" (like us🙂) is just fine. Unfortunately the world has moved on to "eye-candy is king" so, like you, I'm staying right where I am.

[Luis Hernandez 568]

7 hours ago, birdguy said:

I can still buy a leaf spring for a Studebaker from any of four part's stores for 89.88 to 195.58

I can still buy a carburetor for a 1982 Ford Bronco from several parts stores.

I can still buy fuel pump for a 2000 GMC Sierra from several parts stores.

So just because your old doesn't mean you are discarded to the trash heap.

Lots of people, including myself, still fly FS2004 and FSX.  And a whole lot more P3D.

I know the shiny new object is attractive to many, but not all.  Are those who are not attracted relegated to the trash heap?

Noel

Apparently, people like PMDG think so: you can buy the 1982 Bronco carburetor, but you can't buy the NGX for FSX (facepalm).

One thing is no longer developing for a platform (while I don't like it, I understand and accept the reasoning behind) and another one are things like this. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Luis Hernandez

[dave2013 1,123]

4 hours ago, Reader said:

There is nothing wrong with my facts.

You're right.  I did some more checking and discovered that the Pilot's terrain mesh that ORBX was pushing was called "FS Global 2018", not "FTX" Global 2018.

I thought it was a collaboration between ORBX and Pilot's.

My bad.

Dave

[Luke 782]

6 hours ago, birdguy said:

I didn't grow up in a throw-away society where the newest product makes last year's obsolete

Considering the technological progress since 1930 that completely obsoleted multiple product families, yes .... yes you did grow up in such a society.

Cheers!

[Ron Attwood 3,464]

Noel, feel fortunate that you've had the best of this world because it IS going down the pan.

[birdguy 3,943]

59 minutes ago, Luke said:

Considering the technological progress since 1930 that completely obsoleted multiple product families, yes .... yes you did grow up in such a society.

Au contraire mon ami.  What progress?

We threw nothing away except the empty soup cans.  And during the war we saved those.

My little brother wore my hand-me-down clothes.  When our shoes wore down we didn't buy a new pair.  Mom took them to the shoemaker to have them re-soles and/or re-heeled.   Mom poured bacon grease into a can on the stove to use for baking and frying.  She darned worn out socks and sewed patches across the holes in our pants.  We wore clothes until we grew out of them and then younger brothers or sisters or cousins or neighborhood kids would get them.  I wore lots of second hand clothes from an older cousin.

Christmas present wrapping paper was collected and neatly folder by the women to use next year.  Regular wrapping paper was saved as well as paper bags.

Whenever we could afford a new chair or couch for the living room the old went to a relative or friend who could use it.

Recycling is supposed a big new thing.  We recycled everything.

During the war we collected newspapers and tin cans for the war effort.  Nothing was wasted.

Few people we knew owned an automobile.  My uncle had one.  It must have been ten years old.  We had one for about three years after the war.  Have you ever heard of a Reo Flying Cloud?  It had probably been recycled through several owners in it's 15 year life span.  

Before the war when I was 6 or 7 years old the junk man would come through the neighborhood a couple times a month and buy anything we didn't need anymore or trade it for something on his wagon we might have wanted.

Tell me more about 30s and 40s Luke.

Noel

[dave2013 1,123]

14 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Recycling is supposed a big new thing.  We recycled everything.

You said it, Noel.  It is ironic that now that there are billions more people in the world than there were 50+years ago, making recycling ever more important, the trend toward disposable this or that has only gotten worse.  

Not too long ago people used cloths, which they washed and reused, to blow their nose or clean up a mess.  Now everyone just tears a paper towel to clean up a spill.  I saw a TV commercial just yesterday celebrating the use of super-strong paper plates and cups to serve a meal instead of ceramic dishes which can be washed and last a lifetime. Where's the outrage about how many trees have to be cut down because people are too lazy to wash a handkerchief or ceramic plate?

Dave

Edited August 26, 2021 by dave2013

[birdguy 3,943]

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

Where's the outrage about how many trees have to be cut down because people are too lazy to wash a handkerchief or ceramic plate?

That reminds me Dave.  We recently purchased a new dish washer.  The old one was ten years and made a lot of noise, but it was still serviceable.  We gave it to the daughter of friends because she had just moved into an older house with her girl friend.  Yes, it's noisy, but it still has a life.  It isn't ready for the landfill yet.

I read a book once about why societies succeed or fail.  In fact that was the name of the book.  The chapter on Easter Island was most interesting.  It had trees growing on it when the natives who made those big statues lived there but they cut them all down.  One line in the book said, "I wonder what went through the mind of the man who cut down the last tree."

Noel