We've become step children...

[GCBraun 2,390]

10 hours ago, birdguy said:

Some of us old timers living on a fixed income can't afford to buy the newest product when it comes out and a computer upgrade to make it work. 

MSFS costs 1 Euro/Dollar a month to test and most add-ons are cheaper when compared to P3D (there are a lot of quality freeware too). Besides, if you can run P3D v4/5, you will have no issues with this new simulator....

You may be scared of change and that is fine, but I'm afraid that your arguments are not strong enough to persuade Orbx. The fact is that Prepar3D was never meant to be used in the entertainment market and, like it or not, that is exactly the target audience for the Devs flocking to Flight Simulator.

Edited August 26, 2021 by GCBraun

[honanhal 1,420]

2 hours ago, GCBraun said:

MSFS costs 1 Euro/Dollar a month to test and most add-ons are cheaper when compared to P3D (there are a lot of quality freeware too). Besides, if you can run P3D v4/5, you will have no issues with this new simulator....

Indeed. I understand there's a lot more going on here than "I can't afford to buy MSFS or the hardware I'd need to run it," but seriously, Noel, if your hardware can run P3D well I can 100% guarantee it will also run MSFS, most likely better. As GCBraun says, why not try it?

(I know, because you're happy with P3D, right? Although I guess just unhappy enough that you're still hungry enough for new addons to start this thread.🙂)

There are a lot of arguments for sticking with P3D, but "I can't afford MSFS" is frankly a pretty bewildering one to me. Calling P3D a moneypit (both in software and hardware) would be a gross understatement. The hardware advice people always gave, and continue to give, for P3D is "buy the fastest and best components you can afford." That's not necessarily typical advice when people ask what they need to run a piece of software!

James

[birdguy 3,943]

OK guys.  You win.  I know when I'm beaten.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to jump on the latest merry-go-round and give up what I already have or stop being critical of Orbx for abandoning it's old customers who are satisfied with FSX and P3D.

Noel

[psolk 3,037]

45 minutes ago, birdguy said:

OK guys.  You win.  I know when I'm beaten.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to jump on the latest merry-go-round and give up what I already have or stop being critical of Orbx for abandoning it's old customers who are satisfied with FSX and P3D.

Noel

Well you know what they say, if you can't beat them join them (or hire someone to take them out) 

I'm in a DC-6 without putting another penny into MSFS other than my original 69.99 and this single add-on doing long hauls across the pacific on a system I was about to upgrade for P3D that is crushing MSFS on Ultra with a plethora of freeware offerings!   C'mon, dip a toe the water is heated!!!

All the best Noel have a wonderful day! 

Edited August 26, 2021 by psolk

[birdguy 3,943]

No Paul, I'm not going to join them.  I'm sticking with P3Dv5 with as many Orbx sceneries that it will hold (and hoping for more).  Mostly I fly my Quest Kodiak.  I have customized it's panel and somewhere, some time ago, found a change to the turbo engine data that makes the engine start as tame as a sleeping kitten instead of running wild.  I don't need MSFS.  And I won't jump into any new simulator unless I can take my Kodiak along with me.  And probably not even then.

But I do need Orbx if for nothing else for support when I run into trouble with a scenery.  Even though I am banned from the regular forums they have a support forum for limited users.

Noel

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by birdguy
Changed the words 'service' to 'support'.

[philmurfin 73]

I have a cow shed that holds around ten cows, MSFS shows me a tower block

I live in a 360 year old cottage, again MSFS shows me a tower block,

I live opposite a farm, again MSFS shows me a tower block.

Up to now MSFS is just a toy!

One serious money customer

[psolk 3,037]

49 minutes ago, philmurfin said:

I have a cow shed that holds around ten cows, MSFS shows me a tower block

I live in a 360 year old cottage, again MSFS shows me a tower block,

I live opposite a farm, again MSFS shows me a tower block.

Up to now MSFS is just a toy!

One serious money customer

Well if you are a serious money customer that changes everything!!!!  Good thing because you need serious money to get P3D to look anywhere remotely as accurate as the "toy" simulator.... 

And there goes the thread... 

[philmurfin 73]

That is my point,

I don't want to be playing with an XBox toy, can't you even understand that?

I want to  use a groan ups flight simulator!

[psolk 3,037]

6 minutes ago, philmurfin said:

That is my point,

I don't want to be playing with an XBox toy, can't you even understand that?

I want to  use a groan ups flight simulator!

Ironically you sound like a "groan up" rather than a grown up. 

No, I can't understand what you are saying, MSFS has been available on PC for over a year, but I guess I'm not groan up enough... 

May as well lock this one now.  

[Luke 782]

15 hours ago, birdguy said:

My little brother wore my hand-me-down clothes.  When our shoes wore down we didn't buy a new pair.  Mom took them to the shoemaker to have them re-soles and/or re-heeled.   Mom poured bacon grease into a can on the stove to use for baking and frying.  She darned worn out socks and sewed patches across the holes in our pants.  We wore clothes until we grew out of them and then younger brothers or sisters or cousins or neighborhood kids would get them.  I wore lots of second hand clothes from an older cousin.

Christmas present wrapping paper was collected and neatly folder by the women to use next year.  Regular wrapping paper was saved as well as paper bags.

I'm not sure when hand-me-downs and reuse became illegal. If anything, there's a lot advocacy for it today but many people think it's an evil plot by Nancy Peolsi to make boys have abortions and turn us all into communists. I have three children and we did a lot of the same thing with clothes (and my wife does the same thing with wrapping paper). However, what you describe is a lot of reuse through necessity via poverty. I don't think anyone who doesn't suffer from the nostalgia of old age would want to return back to the days of the Great Depression and what passed for war time in the USA in the 1940s.

(I know a lot about the 1930s and 1940s - my living parents grew up during that time in Central Europe where they were invaded by two different totalitarian regimes within a decade and lost relatives to both of them. If you told either of them that the 1930s and 1940s were better, they'd have you committed.)

There are still plenty of opportunities for people to live simply and reuse and buy second hand. Most people choose not to do so, for very good reasons.

15 hours ago, birdguy said:

Few people we knew owned an automobile.  My uncle had one.  It must have been ten years old.  We had one for about three years after the war.  Have you ever heard of a Reo Flying Cloud?  It had probably been recycled through several owners in it's 15 year life span.  

You only owned a car for three years, and they only survived for 15? I've owned Hondas and Toyotas and by year 15 they're barely broken in - and I've never owned a car for less than five years - they usually go ten to fifteen with us alone. But since I'm just a young pup, I'd like to hear more about this culture of disposable automobiles and "planned obsolescence"... I hear that term a lot when dealing with cars from that time. 😄

As people have pointed out, you can't buy 1950s or 1970s-era cars new today. Good reason too - their fuel economy was atrocious, performance characteristics (acceleration, braking, handling) were laughable and they were rolling death traps. Sitting behind some boomer taking out his Triumph for a Sunday afternoon drive makes me dizzy from all the unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust. (At least we banned tetra-ethyl lead in the fuel!) Fortunately 1970s era British sports cares spend more time with their mechanics than their owners.

Society moves on. You can't buy 1940s-style homes. Even when you were a child you likely couldn't buy a new home that didn't have indoor plumbing or electricity, but your parents probably grew up in one. Were they nostalgic for the "good old days" as they got older of outhouses and candles? Most homes from that vintage were torn down and replaced.

Society always moves on. It's natural to feel nostalgic and believe that things were better which is an understood cognitive response. But that's also no reason for you to be petulant that add-on makers are doing exactly what they did with 32-bit P3D, and FSX before it, and FS9 before it, and FS2002 before it, etc. etc. etc. If anything P3D 64-bit has been with us for four years - that's a lot longer than previous generations of flight sims back in the "good old days" of the early 2000s.

Cheers

Edited August 26, 2021 by Luke

[philmurfin 73]

42 minutes ago, psolk said:

Ironically you sound like a "groan up" rather than a grown up. 

No, I can't understand what you are saying, MSFS has been available on PC for over a year, but I guess I'm not groan up enough... 

May as well lock this one now.  

The irony is at your feet, you are the groan, ironically you just don't get that.

Please, with the uttermost politeness, go away from this forum, play with what pleases you.

[birdguy 3,943]

Of course, Luke, if you grew up in a totalitarian regime you would have been worse off than those who grew up the United States at that time.  But I wouldn't give up the memories of growing up as a kid in the 1940s for anything.  Luke, you can enumerate all the faults of the 30s and 40s but you can't erase the happy times my brother and I and our friends and our schoolmates had back then.

Automobile life spans weren't measured in years, but in miles.  Usually at 50 to 60 to 70 thousand miles you needed an engine overhaul.  You don't touch the engine today.  When I was young and owned a car we spent many a Saturday putting in new points and plugs, changing the oil, adjusting the timing with a timing light and a chalk mark on the fan belt.  We even adjust the drum brakes.  It was fun and we got a sense of accomplishment doing those things.  

And we had no turn signals or air conditioning and the heaters were (word not allowed) poor unless you had an add-on gas heater.  We stuck our arms out the window to signal turns.  Straight out to signal a left turn and straight up to signal a right turn.

I live in a house that is over 90 years old.  No central heating.  We have a natural gas floor heater in the living room and a natural gas wall heater in the bedroom.  Likewise we have window air conditioners where they are needed.  And we get along fine in a house that predates the 1940s.  And we have no three prong plugs on the house.  We have three prong plug adapters.  Three prong plugs are on the outside of the house where the air conditioners are and each is a separate line from the breaker box.

Noel

Edited August 26, 2021 by birdguy

[n4gix 4,947]

On 8/26/2021 at 12:18 PM, Luke said:

Society moves on. You can't buy 1940s-style homes. Even when you were a child you likely couldn't buy a new home that didn't have indoor plumbing or electricity, but your parents probably grew up in one. Were they nostalgic for the "good old days" as they got older of outhouses and candles? Most homes from that vintage were torn down and replaced.

Really? The house I live it was already 83 years old when I moved in. It was built in 1918. Granted it's had at least three new roofs over the years. I've enclosed the front porch and the back porch, and had some modern windows and siding installed, but everything else is original.

The house in the lot just to the east of me was condemned by the city some 21 years ago. The lot will remain vacant forever since the lots in this neighborhood are 100' deep, but only 50' wide. The current building code will not allow any new construction on such a narrow lot. The minimum is now 80' width, with at least 5' setback on all sides.

The code will allow one to re-build an existing structure, but at least 20% of the original structure must be retained in-situ. There are thousands of such houses in this very old and historic division, most of which were originally homes of the steel workers and the old Pullman railroad coach company.

[birdguy 3,943]

Fr Bill, your house is over 100 years old now.  Mine probably is too.  I can't find out when it was built.  It was added on to a couple of times.  I understand the man who built is was a saddle maker.

It's a stone house and the masonry has held up well.  There's a stone wall around it that they tell me was built by German POWs during WW2.  There was a POW camp here and the POWs were hired out.  They also built the stone masonry on both banks of the Spring River.   There's a small park along the river with the story of the walls on the river banks.  They put on a stone Iron Cross which the citizens covered with cement when it was discovered.  Over the years the cement was weathered away and you can see the cross.  

A couple of summers ago my youngest daughter took me to San Francisco so I could show her the neighborhood we lived in.  It's still very much intact.  All of the houses are like they were 80 years ago.  So is the main commercial street, Polk Street a block down.  The businesses have changed but the buildings are still there.  The old Royal Theater is now a furniture store and the Alhambra a few blocks down is a fitness center.

I imagine it's much the same in most big cities except in the slum areas.  

The neighborhood was an old, established neighborhood when we moved in.  Mostly Italian.  My brother and I were the only two blond headed kids on the block.

Noel

 

[W2DR 1,859]

17 hours ago, birdguy said:

Automobile life spans weren't measured in years

Indeed not. Sometime during WW II my Dad bought a used 1939 Oldsmobile sedan. I remember well how happy he was when the odometer turned over 50,000 miles sometime in 1950. On the original engine. A big deal at the time. I grew up learning how to change plugs and points (and don't forget the condenser) every 5-6,000 miles. I could adjust a carb and set the timing before I was 10. Kids today don't know what they're missing with all this new-fangled stuff. Remember when we were happy if a set of tires lasted 10,000 miles? I wonder if anyone still buys recaps. I bought a new Honda in 1992 and sold it when it had a mere 122,000 miles. And never needed a repair. I still occasionally talk with the friend who bought it and he's still driving it. The odometer now shows over 257,000 miles. They just don't make 'em like they used to 😃.