Engine Seq 1-2

[paulwain 24]

Hi guys, 

Sorry if this has been asked before, not sure if its correct or not or maybe a bug? I only brought the product a few days ago after seeing easyjetsim piliot showcase the product But can i just say what an AMAZING product this is, love the new style and not having to look through manuals, Great work 😄  

So in my settings, I have the option ticked for engine Seq 1-2 start up, In voice when I start engine one, the FO Arms the speedbreak and lowers flaps 1+F, Shouldn't this be done after engine 2 has started? 

Here is a clip of the possible issue? Watch from 33min50sec 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by paulwain

[Chock 17,769]

Yes, you are correct. Normal standard operating procedure up to setting the flaps and arming the spoilers goes like this:

After engine start, the P1 turns the engine mode selector to NORM (this is technically the end of the starting procedure, because selecting NORM  allows the continuous relight to function on the ground; if you left it in START/IGN, it is inhibited). Next P2 turns the APU bleed off, then P2 arms the ground spoilers, then P2 resets the rudder trim, then P2 sets take-off flaps and checks it on the ECAM. Then the P2 sets the pitch trim. At this point, when you've checked all that, then you can clear the ground crew to disconnect the tug and bar.

The only exception to the above, is that setting flaps can be deferred to the hold point if there is slush, snow, FOD etc, or if you are remote de-icing, because obviously there is an increased risk of the de-icing truck hitting the extended flap canoes. You have to be careful with this obviously, because you don't want to take the runway and then forget to set the flaps. There are checklists which cover this prior to take off though, including visually checking the flap lever and checking the ECAM, so it would not normally be an issue, but it is something to be aware of all the same if you have done this. There have been crashes of airliners where they've forgot to set the take-off flaps in the past and found themselves unable to lift off, and in most cases where this has occurred, it has been where a crew has been going through a checklist, then deviated from it for one reason or another before continuing later on and skipping the flaps check.

There might be some airlines which have a different procedure, but that would be going against the recommended procedures, although to be fair, you shouldn't even be starting the engines at the point where they are started on that video either, so it's not exactly super realistic anyway. To elaborate:

There is a road behind the aeroplane, so you'd typically get someone in the road with marshalling wands to stop traffic, then if pushing back as that guy is, you'd commence the push, then you'd get the thing over the road off the stand and actually with wheels onto the taxiway before cranking the engines. This is so you don't pick up a load of word not allowed off the ramp and so the road person isn't put at risk of ingestion or jet blast, which isn't very likely admittedly, but is still a consideration. On some stands, you aren't even supposed to crank the engines until you are at the tug release point; there is a book which it is mandatory to have in all pushback tugs at any airport which covers all that sort of thing and rules about when you can crank up; this is because it's the not the flight deck crew in charge of the aeroplane, but actually ground crew when it pushes back (technically, the headset person's proper job title at that point is 'engine start master', but nobody ever calls a headsetter that), so the engines start when the ground crew say so because they are the ones who can see them and know if they are clear, and so starting up would rarely be right after the thing started rolling back off the stand. 

Having said that, it's not unknown to start engines on stand, we in fact did that for real yesterday on an Aer Lingus A320 on stand 8 at EGCC. You do need specific permission from ATC to do this though. We had pushed that A320 out and were on the way to TRP 10 when I heard a loud pop from engine 1 whilst it was cranking. Air was feeding from the APU but the fans were not turning. So, we tried a few things but then ended up towing it back onto stand 8. The problem was the valve which is supposed to open to allow bleed air to the engines from the APU was not automatically opening as it should, so the pop we heard was a bit of backfiring from fuel feeding but the engines not cranking. Back on the stand, we had a BA engineer come over to do a manual start on it. This is where you open up a little panel on the engine cowling to access a manual start lever. You turn that lever to open the valve from the APU manually, then when the engine has cranked up, you shut it off again, after that you can use crossbleed air to start the other engine. This is in fact why there is a headset socket on the side of the engine cowlings as well as one in the nose landing gear bay, although the socket on that Aer Lingus A320's engine (EI-DVL) was busted, so we had to use the nose gear bay socket.

Back with the sim, part of the reason for some stuff being a bit out of sequence in the sim, is the mechanics of the sim itself, which developers have to work around a little bit to get things such as FS2Crew to work, for example, you don't really release the parking brakes to commence the push in real life, what you actually do is put the anti-collision beacon on, then tell the ground crew you are good to go, they check everything is clear, then they ask you to release the parking brake, which you do, then they confirm this with you, then they start the push. When they know it is safe/legal (according to airport rules) to start the engines, that's when they'll tell you that you are clear to crank them up. You might be surprised to know that the danger area for back blast on an A320 if it is doing a ground run-up, extends out to 1,150 feet behind the engines, but on a normal start up, it is more like around 200 feet of so. This is why the ground crew are in charge of the start procedure, because you can't see what is behind you in an A320 and they would see (and hear) any problems with a start long before you knew anything about it, such as a fire or some such. These are rare, but they do occasionally occur, which is another reason why you don't want to be cranking engines up when you are right near the terminal building if you can avoid doing so.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Chock

[byork 2,258]

It's a known bug already fixed for V1.1.

For now, pls just stick to the Engine 2 then 1 start order.

Cheers,

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by byork

[paulwain 24]

21 hours ago, Chock said:

Yes, you are correct. Normal standard operating procedure up to setting the flaps and arming the spoilers goes like this:

After engine start, the P1 turns the engine mode selector to NORM (this is technically the end of the starting procedure, because selecting NORM  allows the continuous relight to function on the ground; if you left it in START/IGN, it is inhibited). Next P2 turns the APU bleed off, then P2 arms the ground spoilers, then P2 resets the rudder trim, then P2 sets take-off flaps and checks it on the ECAM. Then the P2 sets the pitch trim. At this point, when you've checked all that, then you can clear the ground crew to disconnect the tug and bar.

The only exception to the above, is that setting flaps can be deferred to the hold point if there is slush, snow, FOD etc, or if you are remote de-icing, because obviously there is an increased risk of the de-icing truck hitting the extended flap canoes. You have to be careful with this obviously, because you don't want to take the runway and then forget to set the flaps. There are checklists which cover this prior to take off though, including visually checking the flap lever and checking the ECAM, so it would not normally be an issue, but it is something to be aware of all the same if you have done this. There have been crashes of airliners where they've forgot to set the take-off flaps in the past and found themselves unable to lift off, and in most cases where this has occurred, it has been where a crew has been going through a checklist, then deviated from it for one reason or another before continuing later on and skipping the flaps check.

There might be some airlines which have a different procedure, but that would be going against the recommended procedures, although to be fair, you shouldn't even be starting the engines at the point where they are started on that video either, so it's not exactly super realistic anyway. To elaborate:

There is a road behind the aeroplane, so you'd typically get someone in the road with marshalling wands to stop traffic, then if pushing back as that guy is, you'd commence the push, then you'd get the thing over the road off the stand and actually with wheels onto the taxiway before cranking the engines. This is so you don't pick up a load of word not allowed off the ramp and so the road person isn't put at risk of ingestion or jet blast, which isn't very likely admittedly, but is still a consideration. On some stands, you aren't even supposed to crank the engines until you are at the tug release point; there is a book which it is mandatory to have in all pushback tugs at any airport which covers all that sort of thing and rules about when you can crank up; this is because it's the not the flight deck crew in charge of the aeroplane, but actually ground crew when it pushes back (technically, the headset person's proper job title at that point is 'engine start master', but nobody ever calls a headsetter that), so the engines start when the ground crew say so because they are the ones who can see them and know if they are clear, and so starting up would rarely be right after the thing started rolling back off the stand. 

Having said that, it's not unknown to start engines on stand, we in fact did that for real yesterday on an Aer Lingus A320 on stand 8 at EGCC. You do need specific permission from ATC to do this though. We had pushed that A320 out and were on the way to TRP 10 when I heard a loud pop from engine 1 whilst it was cranking. Air was feeding from the APU but the fans were not turning. So, we tried a few things but then ended up towing it back onto stand 8. The problem was the valve which is supposed to open to allow bleed air to the engines from the APU was not automatically opening as it should, so the pop we heard was a bit of backfiring from fuel feeding but the engines not cranking. Back on the stand, we had a BA engineer come over to do a manual start on it. This is where you open up a little panel on the engine cowling to access a manual start lever. You turn that lever to open the valve from the APU manually, then when the engine has cranked up, you shut it off again, after that you can use crossbleed air to start the other engine. This is in fact why there is a headset socket on the side of the engine cowlings as well as one in the nose landing gear bay, although the socket on that Aer Lingus A320's engine (EI-DVL) was busted, so we had to use the nose gear bay socket.

Back with the sim, part of the reason for some stuff being a bit out of sequence in the sim, is the mechanics of the sim itself, which developers have to work around a little bit to get things such as FS2Crew to work, for example, you don't really release the parking brakes to commence the push in real life, what you actually do is put the anti-collision beacon on, then tell the ground crew you are good to go, they check everything is clear, then they ask you to release the parking brake, which you do, then they confirm this with you, then they start the push. When they know it is safe/legal (according to airport rules) to start the engines, that's when they'll tell you that you are clear to crank them up. You might be surprised to know that the danger area for back blast on an A320 if it is doing a ground run-up, extends out to 1,150 feet behind the engines, but on a normal start up, it is more like around 200 feet of so. This is why the ground crew are in charge of the start procedure, because you can't see what is behind you in an A320 and they would see (and hear) any problems with a start long before you knew anything about it, such as a fire or some such. These are rare, but they do occasionally occur, which is another reason why you don't want to be cranking engines up when you are right near the terminal building if you can avoid doing so.

Thank you for a detailed response 

18 hours ago, byork said:

It's a known bug already fixed for V1.1.

For now, pls just stick to the Engine 2 then 1 start order.

Cheers,

 

Thanks for your reply. Glad it was noted. Will use Seq 2+1 for now 😄